Wednesday, June 10, 2009

Shooting at National Holocaust Museum - UPDATED!!

May God have mercy ...

Dana Goldstein's headline says it all, "Holocaust Museum Shooter is White Supremacist."

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The spin on the left is that the suspect, James Von Brunn, is an agent of the GOP's "Christian-fascist" base. The truth is, via Melissa Clouthier, this guy's a deranged Holocaust denier. He represents no one on the conservative right - not me, nor any of those with whom I associate.

Charles Johnson, of course, says
the shooting vindicates the discredited DHS report on the extremist right?

Little Green Footballs has officially joined the other side. Compare Charles to Digby at Hullabaloo: "
It's pretty clear that the right wing has lost whatever restraint it had and that the ongoing paroxysms of violent, extreme rhetoric are having their effect."

More at Memeorandum.

I'll update with more reactions. It's going to be a long night ...

UPDATE: This post has been picked up by ...

* Michelle Malkin, "Shooting at National Holocaust Museum Updated: Museum guard dies; shooter wasn’t “left” or “right,” just plain loony."

* William Jacobson, "Taking Advantage of The Holocaust Museum Shooting."

See also, Kathy Shaidle, "Holocaust Museum shooter von Brunn a 9/11 'truther' who hated 'neo-cons', Bush, McCain." As Kathy notes:

That this shooting occurred shortly after President Obama's former mentor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, blamed "the Jews" for his lack of access to his former parishioner is a troubling confluence of events.
See Kathy's blog for more information and links ...

Also: Officer Stephen Tyrone Johns, the heroic guard at the Holocaust Museum, has died: "Holocaust Museum guard killed in shooting, gunman wounded."


UPDATE II: Gawker's running this headline, "The Rise of Right-Wing Violence."

Andrew Sullivan's running right along with Charles Johnson: "Time To Apologize To Napolitano?"

Greg Sargent is even more specific, "D.C. Shooting: Time To Revisit Criticism Of “Right Wing Extremists” Report."

Yeah. Right.

But see Greyhawk's post, " “Told Ya So” - 89 year-old shooter “confirms DHS report”."


UPDATE III: Robert Stacy McCain links, and he's also got another post up, on Glenn Greenwald, "Pot, Meet Kettle." Greenwald's link is here. Ed Morrissey responds as well: "Glenn Greenwald calls me “fear stricken,” which is rather humorous from the man shrieking with fear over the Bush administration’s surveillance programs."

Plus, Media Matters spins the DHS meme to its warped conclusion, "Will Republicans Admit That Their Partisan Outrage Over The DHS Report Was Misplaced?"

Oh, great. The Politico's getting in on the act: "Attacks validate DHS report, some say."


heidianne jackson said...

and if this particular holocaust denier had been a muslim, then what? how about mel gibson and his father - you don't get much more liberal in beliefs than them, and yet they deny the holocaust took place.

holocaust deniers and white supremecists are not conservatives by default. this is everyone trying to deny a connection with a person who has committed a hideous, odeous act.

theCL said...

It's all become pathetic. Worse than high school. That these people would actually try to paint this complete wacko lunatic as a picture of the average conservative is not only irresponsible, but juvenile.

I guess this is what we should expect from a state-run media though. Intellectuals? LMAO! More like Toddlers (and I'm being generous).

jim edwards said...

Thank God, somebody was ARMED at the museum - otherwise we might have seen twenty killed.

Another mass murder prevented through the trained use of firearms.

cracker said...


Murders in Church's,

now a murder in a museum (where many more could have happened) dedicated to the deaths of millions

The murderers are all middle aged / older white guys......?

Gayle said...

Good work, Donald!

I agree completely with every comment made on this post so far. I've been away from the pc all day and had not heard about this. Absolutely nothing will surprise me any more than comes from MSNBC!

Digby's a nut, but Little Green Footballs saying the DHS report was well warranted comes as a shock. I doubt that I'll be visiting their website anymore. It's okay. It's always loaded extremely slow on my pc anyway. The heck with them!

rbosque said...

This supremacist hates Jews but so do Muslim terrorists. But why are the Muslim terrorists always excused by the left?

Tim said...

"But why are the Muslim terrorists always excused by the left?"

Who exactly on left excuses Muslim terrorists? Are you effing kidding? No one excuses terrorism other than terrorists. Please.

Mel Gibson liberal? Excuse me? Since when? He's ultra-orthodox Catholic, anti-semite, sexist, homophobic...virtually everything a true liberal is not.

Look, this isn't a typical conservative. It's a crazy person. We liberals know that. But there is an element of fomenting this behavior, with sly nods, winks, and always referring to Obama as "Hussein." That type of crap.

Donald, I see you are still quoting from the mental midget that is Michelle Malkin. Have you not noticed a pattern in her writings yet? Nothing is ever the fault of a conservative, of course not.

Bottom line is this: The DHS report that everyone slammed here a few weeks ago was STUNNINGLY accurate saying that hate groups/activity were on the rise.

I don't see liberal hate groups. I see protests, some silly, some stupid, some worthy.

I don't see liberals shooting churches. That's because we have the good sense not to go to church, of course. We take out our frustrations on violent video games.

Mark Harvey said...

White Supremacists are leftists no matter the spin from the anti-Jew left. They are two peas in a pod. They deserve each other because they think alike. End of discussion.

Tim said...

Mark: Are you a comedian?

Are we talking about the same white supremacists who hate jews, commies, and fags? Because yes, that sounds like leftists to me.

cracker said...

Mark Harvey, put down the whiskey

"In the 1990s white supremacy groups became linked to right-wing militia organizations. These militia groups, while espousing anti-government violence, often share a belief in white supremacy."

This quote is an excerpt on "White Supremacy Groups", from the American Law Library.

This is the link to the American Law Library, Vol. 10

Discussion On!

Tim said...

Cracker: What the right is trying to do lately, with books like Liberal Fascism, is to distort the methodology of an ideology and tie it with something it has never been.

Example: The NSM (National Socialist Movement) has nothing to do with universal healthcare, just universal hate towards non-whites. But by using the former Nazi terminology (the Nazis and Hitler, for the record, hated Communists too) they tie it in with their spin.

It's classic propaganda. Use the wedge of ignorance to further the ignorance, and keep your people in power. It's classic, it's Rovian. He learned a lot from Geobbels who, it has to noted engaged in:

"..combating the local socialist and communist parties with the help of Nazi papers and the paramilitary SA."

I love how the right tries to tie liberals with Nazis. Shows an almost extreme disregard for truths. It's a denier's mentality.

Again, this is a tragedy by a sick mind. I am merely responding to ignorance here on the comments.

Mark Harvey said...

I don't give a rat's ass who classified who as what and when. It is a FACT of life that the Jew Haters are ALL on the left side of life.

Where was the "outrage" from the left when that American Haji Jihadi scum murdered an American soldier? All of a sudden there is outrage over some moron that shot up the Holocaust Museum who turned out to be a Holocaust denier...just like that moron Achmed I'm In A Dinner Jacket from Iran?

Yep. He was a leftist alright, plain and simple.

Mark Harvey said...

As for the left being linked to Nazis and other fascists, get over it. Facts are facts and facts are hard to hide.

Political Science bears that out. No matter how the Leftinistra, the armies of the socialist liberal, tries to spin, lie and deceive, redefining the political spectrum just doesn't hold water or turtle turds.

Spin that.

Rusty Walker said...

Tim, calm down. Focus! Please don’t get caught up in the frenzy…I am a conservative and I hear you, absorb what Cracker said.

None of us on the right, the true patriots (John Adams/Ronald Reagan) want our brothers on the left (Thomas Jefferson/John F. Kennedy), to be branded by extreme behavior of misguided fervor. That isn’t going to help any of us. Don’t get caught up in the low-level debate. Respectfully, I think you could rise above the extremism here. Not that Mark Harvey is wrong-I think I understand what he said, but , really, the level of debate and inquiry should elevate us above the fray. This is a great forum for intellectual debate. Let’s keep it real. The “linking” arguments are incendiary remarks. It leads you nowhere. Forgive me, I am not saying I know more than any of you, but, I know this…stop the cycle of categorizations in an effort to demonize the other side. The fact of the matter is none of us should be linked to these extremists. That isn't helping those of us called to make a difference. All if you may need to read Mcoullough's John Adams again, or watch the DVD. We need to remember how to work together , like JA and TJ - this is too important.

Tim said...

Mark, you're killing me here. Do you get paid for your standup?

Nice, another one of Donald's crackpots. I'm sure he will be thanking you soon.

That link, btw, goes to a site that is unreadable. Just thought you might want to know.

Tim said...

Rusty: As I said, I was only responding to the comments here, which serve as a distraction to the point of the issue. As I said, this is a crackpot who shot up Holocaust Museum.

Rusty, if you "understand" Mark, please explain. Because I don't. What he doesn't seem to get is that people who are sometimes critical of Israel (which includes, wonder of wonders, Israelis themselves) are not anti-semites.

People who are holocaust deniers, and shoot up museums dedicated to it, are anti-semites.

And, strangely enough, these people always identify as right wing extremists as their politics include a fear of government, immigrants and gays.

But Rusty, I appreciate you trying to be even handed.

JSF said...

Tim, Tim, Tim,

I'm a jew and Blogger, and all I've been seeing from the past 8 years is Anti-Israel, anti-semitism from the left on places like the Daily Kos and the Huffington Post.

I'd write about it and send it out to the media (and G-d help me) and Andrew Sullivan -- someone to promote the fact that Anti-semitism and Anti-Bush should not be partners (As a former Dem, i do worry where my old party is going) -- but no one picked up on the posts, no one cared.

The rhetoric that the shooter used can be found on pacifica radio (No Righties there) or on daily Kos (Again, how many McCain supporters post there?). I can go on, but I know, since the rhetoric came from the Left (and I Blogged many, many times about it), YOU WILL NOT CARE.

8 years of hateful rhetoric and showing no magnanimity in Victory after November -- I'd be watching my back too.

Rusty Walker said...

Okay, fair enough, Tim. I guess what I meant was, that what may bring sanity to the right and/or left center is that, there seems to be a proclivity, all of a sudden, for the left (Obama included) to start associating the U.S. more and more with the Islamic cause, including Palestinians- at the expense of the Israelis (Jews). So, the press appears to be overcompensating by siding with anything anti-Jew in the press and it seems to be a vicious circle. So, then, any news piece sets off a tirade of accusations against the left or the right – and neither, from my research, really wants to associate themselves with these extremists. So, I think we need to be the sane ones to figure out where real differences are, not where the media seems to be derailing the debate.

Tim said...

JSF: I'm not buying. You, like Mark, are telling, but you aren't showing. HuffPo is hardly anti-semitic and you would have a hard time showing me that that is their party line. (Considering they also have a few Jewish bloggers.) Also, you have not done your homework on this guy. He is what we call the classic right-wing whacko. I've read stuff posted elsewhere on his web site and it bears this out.

I am not one to absolve the left. There are some idiots out there, and that is Donald's stock in trade, to show them.

JSF said...


Of course you're not buying. You do not go out of your comfort zone of needing an American Emmanuel Goldstein (Is it Bush this week, or palin, or Rush?).

I've cited the daily Kos' and a few posters there, but, according to Tim, we don't have to look there.

Pacifica traffics in the same anti-Jew rhetoric, but because it is of the Left, Tim does not need to be bothered.

You see, with guys like Tim, he claims to care about people, but he allowed the rhetoric of asasination of Bush and Hate of Bush and jews to escape the last 8 years, but he feels, even though he contributed to the atmosphere, he finds nothing wrong.

The blood is on your hands Tim, since you never find anything with the rhetoric of the last 8 years. And where is that post-partisanship that was promised? Another lie by Obama.

JSF said...

Oh, according to the Washington examiner, he hated Jews and he hated Bush:

And I quote:

"For example, he unleashed his hatred of both Presidents Bush and other "neo-conservatives" in online essays. As even some "progressives" such as the influential Adbusters magazine publicly admit, "neoconservative" is often used as a derogatory code word for "Jews". As well, even a cursory glance at "white supremacist" writings reveals a hatred of, say, big corporations that is virtually indistinguishable from that of anti-globalization activists"

Game, set, match, Tim -- the blood is on your hands since you also hate Bush too.

Tim said...

Words fail.

JSF: Wait, I don't like Bush, so blood is on my hands?

Are you fucking kidding me? (How much blood is on Bush's hands? Just curious.)

This guy hates Jews, and he hates anyone of color. Is that real liberalism? By your logic -- or lack thereof -- there are an awful lot of self-loathing Jews that actually brought this on by the hatred of W.

JSF, I would argue with you, but you know what? I have a four-year old to put to bed. One that is not even childish enough to fall for your tripe.

That was truly pathetic. I expect Donald to give you kudos too.

Seriously. Up is now the new down. Some of us are just not. that. stupid.

JSF said...


Tim just proved my point -- rather then argue Anti-semites/Anti-Israel folks should NOT be aligned with the Left, he argued that hatred of Bush (like a two Minute hate or hate week expressed by Orwell) is good.

WFB stood shoulders above everyone in the Republican Party because he was willing to throw out the Isolationists (the Birchers) and the anti-semites, people like Tim will accept them as long as they hate the Republican Emmanuel Goldstein of the day (Bush? Palin? Rush? Cantor?).

Why do I expect better of my old party?

Michelle Therese said...

I love it: One Muslim kills an Army private and the press labels him a *lone extremist* and hey, Islam is a religion of peace!

One white guy kills a guard and *all* Christains are labelled extremists and painted as dangerous and out to GET YOU!!!

The Left is doing its best to pave the way for legal persecution of Christains ~ and a complete surrender of America to Islam and Marxism!

The Lefties won't be laughing when they have to start wearing burkas and long beards under duress...

Rich Casebolt said...

But there is an element of fomenting this behavior, with sly nods, winks, and always referring to Obama as "Hussein." That type of crap.

First, Tim, the shooter at the Holocaust museum was not targeting Muslims, so I don't think calling Mr. Obama by his middle name ... a name he has emphasized himself in speeches recently ... fomented this.

Second, why is it that ... from the responses to the Arkansas shooting to the DHS report ... a broad brush is applied ONLY to conservatives by your fellow-travelers? Hmmm? Can you say "politics"?

Third, if behavior can be fomented as you describe ... then how much of our enemies' behavior was "fomented" by, say, referring to our 43rd President as "McBushChimpyHitlerBurton" ... among other things that were done to intentionally tear him down BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, just so y'all could gain power and impose your socialist Utopia upon the rest of us.

By your own calculus, y'all have done a lot to make the GWOT -- in all theaters -- longer and harder than it need be.

Compared to that, conservative insinuations -- even those "over the top" -- are insignificant.

unebaiser said...

So what you are telling me is that what one person does not represent the actions of an entire group of people?When does that start to apply to black people?Withdrawn.Right wing radio forever.

Dennis said...


It would seem that after a while even you would get the idea that tossing around terms like "racist," "bigot," et al is going to come back and define you rather than those with whom you disagree. You have done it so often that you lack any credibility and it affects your ability to defend your ideas.
A thought here might be that when you attempt to define others as a group you only define yourself. The Founders placed great emphasis on the individual for a reason. Only the individual is responsible for his/her actions. Individuals may band together to further their interests, but they are still individuals.
Here we have a shooter that took an individual action. His reasons should not reflect on others, but you and the Left have done that consistently. Are you surprised when others, which would have occurred more often if those of us who disagree with you and the ilk that surrounds you had not had more tolerance for others, do to you as you have done to them?
The fact is that Socialism, Fascism, Communism, NAZIs, et al have always been a function of the Left because of the "group" identity for a start. That many in academe have, because they need to mainstream themselves, tried to alter the classical definitions so that anything that happens that is bad becomes a function of the Right shows the problems that exist in academe. I cannot blame them for the ideologies they have had, now and in the past, that killed literally millions of people. Far more than wars have ever killed. Wars have an end when there is a clear winner, ideologies do not.
No one wants that legacy. Have you not ever wondered how the Left so easily falls in line for abortion, infanticide, eugenics, et al? There is always another justification provided for the above actions.
I doubt any of this will get through for I have seen you, metaphorically speaking, torn apart on several sites where intellect and reasoned discourse are highly prized. Rusty, unfortunately you waste your time on a closed mind.