Showing posts sorted by date for query stogie at saberpoint. Sort by relevance Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by date for query stogie at saberpoint. Sort by relevance Show all posts

Tuesday, August 1, 2017

What if the South Had Won the Civil War?

I'm sure Stogie at Saberpoint would have been stoked, lol.

From Allen C. Guelzo, at USA Today, "What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's ‘Confederate’":
The new project from the 'Game of Thrones' creators could shock us by exposing how little of the Confederate future we avoided.

“What if” has always been the favorite game of Civil War historians. Now, thanks to David Benioff and D.B. Weiss — the team that created HBO’s insanely popular Game of Thrones — it looks as though we’ll get a chance to see that “what if” on screen. Their new project, Confederate, proposes an alternate America in which the secession of the Southern Confederacy in 1861 actually succeeds. It is a place where slavery is legal and pervasive, and where a new civil war is brewing between the divided sections.

The wild popularity of Game of Thrones has already set the anxiety bells of progressives jangling over how much a game of Confederate thrones might look like a fantasy of the alt-right. Still, if Benioff and Weiss really want to give audiences the heebie-jeebies about a Confederate victory, they ought to pay front-and-center attention to how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left, and what the Confederacy’s leaders frankly proposed as their idea of the future.

The general image of the Confederacy in most textbooks is a backwards, agricultural South that really didn’t stand a chance against the industrialized North. But it simply isn’t true that the Confederate South was merely a carpet of cotton plantations, and the North a smoke-blackened vista of factories. Both North and South in 1861 were largely agricultural regions (72% of the congressional districts in the Northern states on the eve of the Civil War were farm-dominated); the real difference was between the Southern plantation and the Northern family farm. Nor did the South lag all that seriously behind the North in industrial capacity. And far from being a Lost Cause, the Confederacy frequently came within an ace of winning its war.

So, if Benioff and Weiss want to steer their fantasy as close as they can to probable realities, they should consider a few of these scenarios as the possible worlds of Confederate:

A successful Confederacy would be an imperial Confederacy. Aggressive Southerners before 1860 made no secret of their ambitions to spread a slave-labor cotton empire into Central and South America. These schemes would begin, as they had in 1854, with the annexation of Cuba and the acquisition of colonies in South America, where slave labor was also still legal. This would bring the Confederates into conflict with France and Great Britain, since France was also plotting to rebuild a French empire in Mexico in the 1860s, and the British had substantial investments around the Caribbean rim. The First World War might have been one between Europeans and Confederates over the future of Central and South America.

A successful Confederacy would have triggered further secessions. There were already fears in 1861 that the new Pacific Coast states of California and Oregon would secede to form their own Pacific republic. A Confederate victory probably would have pushed that threat into reality — thus anticipating today’s Calexit campaign by 150 years — and in turn triggered independence movements in the Midwest and around the Great Lakes. The North (or what was left of the United States) would bear approximately the same relation to these new republics as Scandinavia to modern-day Europe.

A successful Confederacy would have found ways for slavery to evolve, from cotton-picking to cotton-manufacturing, and beyond. The Gone With the Wind image of the South as agricultural has become so fixed that it’s easy to miss how steadily black slaves were being slipped into the South’s industrial workforce in the decade before the Civil War. More than half of the workers in the iron furnaces along the Cumberland River in Tennessee were slaves; most of the ironworkers in the Richmond iron furnaces in Virginia were slaves as well. They are, argued one slave-owner, “cheaper than freemen, who are often refractory and dissipated; who waste much time by frequenting public places … which the operative slave is not permitted to frequent.”

A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.
Still more.

Friday, February 26, 2016

'Confederate Heritage Month'

This is so stupid, although I'm sure Stogie at Saberpiont will be pleased.

At the Jackson Free Press, "UPDATED: Mississippi Governor Declares April 'Confederate Heritage Month,' No Slavery Mention":

JACKSON — Two weeks before the Mississippi Legislature allowed 19 state flag bills to die in committee, Gov. Phil Bryant took out a pen and signed an official governor's proclamation, declaring the month of April "Confederate Heritage Month," a routine occurrence in Mississippi and several other southern states.

The proclamation, which does not appear on the State of Mississippi's website with other proclamations, such as about emergency inclement weather, is posted on the website of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is ferociously against changing the Mississippi flag to remove the Confederate battle flag—which supporters like to call the "Beauregard flag"—from its canton.

#SCV is also an organization that pushes revisionist history about the Civil War and the reasons the Confederacy formed, such as selling books by James Ronald Kennedy and his twin brother Walter Donald Kennedy at Jefferson Davis' Gulf Coast home, Beauvoir, which SCV manages. The Kennedy brothers are founding members of the League of the South. These organizations stand in strong denial of the reasons the Confederates themselves said they seceded, joined the Confederacy and started the war—to maintain slavery, extend it to new states and force the return of fugitive slaves who had made their way to free states.

On Bryant's gubernatorial letterhead, the proclamation starts out by explaining that April is the appropriate month to honor Confederate heritage because it "is the month in which the Confederate States began and ended a four-year struggle." It adds that the state celebrates Confederate Memorial Day on April 25 to "recognize those who served in the Confederacy."

It then explains that it is "important for all Americans to reflect upon our nation's past" and "to gain insight from our mistakes and successes," adding that we must "earnestly strive to understand and appreciate our heritage and our opportunities which lie before us."

#Bryant refuses to take a position on changing the Mississippi flag, saying it should be up to the voters, who decided in 2001 to leave the old flag in place, in a vote that fell largely along racial lines.

#Mississippi, along with Arkansas and Alabama, also celebrate Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's birthday on the same day as the federal Martin Luther King Jr. birthday in January...
In the past, I might have said "to each his own," but since the Dylann Roof Charleston massacre of black parishioners, I'm not about to defend the "heritage" of the Confederate Flag any longer. Sure, let it fly, but don't tell me it's not about slavery. It's about slavery.

More. (Via Memeorandum.)

FLASHBACK: "Leftist Stogie at Saberpoint Joins Marxists and Radical Libertarians on Civil War Revisionism."

There's lots more from the Stogie-Donald debates here.

Sunday, September 6, 2015

Confederate Flags Raised Again in South Carolina

Well, no doubt the Confederate flag debate has simmered down by now. I've personally disassociated with so-called conservatives who champion that symbol of Southern heritage. I appreciate the sentiments of pride, but not the denial of the flag's uglier symbolism. The only people making the hardline "heritage" argument are Marxists and radical libertarians, not true conservative patriots.

Stogie at Saberpoint's backed off his brusque attacks on dissenters from the Marxist/radical libertarian line. I see his last big post on this was from August 18th, "George Zimmeran's [sic] Painting of the Confederate Flag." (But see also from August 14th, "The Civil War Absolutely Was Not About Slavery: Must-Read Book Tells Why.")

It's a stupid, childish lie that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, as I've shown here repeatedly. And all any half-rational person has to do is read Bruce Levine's magnificent book, The Fall of the House of Dixie: The Civil War and the Social Revolution That Transformed the South.

In any case, because there's always going to be disagreement over this, you'll never see the blatant in-your-face displays of the flag go away, especially in the South, and even in South Carolina, where the murders of the nine black Charleston parishioners will forever be a stain on that state's history.

So, here's the New York Times with a reminder of how that culture endures, with NASCAR.

See, "Confederate Flags Crash Nascar’s Plan for a Homecoming":

DARLINGTON, S.C. — Throwback paint schemes on racecars and retro logos and signs welcomed Nascar fans when they arrived at Darlington Raceway this weekend for the Bojangles’ Southern 500 Sprint Cup race. The marketing campaign was designed to make one of the most storied tracks on the circuit look like the early 1970s all over again.

Fans were more than happy to complete the picture, much to Nascar’s dismay. The Confederate flags they raised on R.V.s across the infield and outside the track dotted the sky above Darlington on Friday morning, as they have for decades here. The Southern 500, after all, was long known for playing “Dixie” as its anthem and used to feature a character named Johnny Reb — a man dressed as a Confederate soldier who stood atop the winning car with a rebel flag.

As those Confederate flags waved once more on Friday, Nascar faced its recurring quandary: How could a sport so closely associated with its Southern roots broaden its appeal nationally without alienating that base?

An insightful and occasionally amusing package of the sports journalism you need today, delivered to your inbox by New York Times reporters and editors.

“I’d say we’re always looking to make sure we’re satisfying our core fans and our long-term fan at the same time as we are growing to a new audience,” Jim Cassidy, Nascar’s senior vice president for racing operations, said Thursday during a telephone interview. “It’s a balance.”

And Darlington Raceway, as much as any track on the circuit, epitomizes the struggle Nascar has faced in trying to find that balance with an event that holds a special place in racing history.

The Southern 500 was first held at Darlington on Labor Day weekend in 1950. For 53 years, it was an iconic stop on the schedule, revered by some as much or more than the Daytona 500 and the Coca-Cola 600 among the most important races of the year. That was until 2004, when Nascar changed the schedule to give the Labor Day weekend date to its sister track in Fontana, Calif., in the coveted Los Angeles market.

The Southern 500 was suddenly gone.

“It’s one of those things: Be careful what you wish for,” said Kyle Petty, the longtime driver who is now an NBC broadcaster. “We wished for a bigger sport, we dreamed of a bigger sport. We dreamed of Chicago and Kansas and Dallas, Tex., and L.A., and we dreamed of those markets when we were running North Wilkesboro and Darlington and Rockingham and Martinsville and places like that.

“And then all of the sudden you have those markets, but there’s a sacrifice to be made to be in those markets. And I think Nascar looked at it and said, let’s change some of this stuff around. I give them credit for changing it at the time to try to make something happen. But I give them huge credit for realizing what we had was just as special and coming back to it.”

Darlington retained one race each season, the date shifting on the schedule several times. The Southern 500 name was brought back in 2009 as well. But it was not until after the California experiment failed and the Labor Day event was shifted to Atlanta for four years that Nascar finally gave Darlington back its Southern 500 on Labor Day weekend this year. It was hard to gauge enthusiasm going into the weekend; the race was not a sellout at the 58,000-seat track.

“I think our great race fans in South Carolina support this racetrack,” said the track president, Chip Wile. “Certainly, we want to make a big splash in our return to Labor Day weekend, and I think we’ll do that.”

But officials are determined not to make a scene at the same time with Confederate flags in clear view during the race broadcast. After all, the Nascar chairman, Brian France, had declared that Confederate flags were no longer welcome at tracks after a mass shooting at a church in Charleston in June. When the series shifted to Daytona in July, track officials came up with an exchange program. They offered American flags to replace the Confederate flags there...
Still more.

Thursday, July 30, 2015

Confederate Flags Placed at Ebenezer Baptist Church and Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site

It's MLK's former church, now a national historic monument.

Because the Confederate flag stands for racial reconciliation, or something.

At the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "Cops: Video shows 2 men placing Confederate flags at Ebenezer":
Atlanta police said surveillance footage shows two men placing Confederate battle flags at two of Atlanta’s most notable landmarks early Thursday: Ebenezer Baptist Church and Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site.

As investigators worked to identify the men and their motive, church and civic leaders decried the act as terrorism, vowing not to be threatened.

Police later Thursday released several black and white videos from Ebenezer’s surveillance cameras showing images of two men walking and placing flags at various spots...
The National Park Service also received a "threatening message" just days ago that mention the historic site, although authorities are not yet linking it to events overnight.

Also at CNN, "Confederate flags found at MLK's church," and AP, "Confederate Flags Placed Near MLK's Ga. Church."

And at Fox 5 News Atlanta, "Rev. Warnock on Confederate flags found at church."

I'm going to check over at Saberpoint to see if Stogie's renounced this act of "terrorism," to use the word of condemnation of church leaders.

Hey Conservatives, What's Worth Conserving If It Ain't White?

So, that's what the whole "#Cuckservative" thing is all about?

And here Robert Stacy McCain was saying it was a leftist meme. I guess not.

At American Renaissance, "An Open Letter to Cuckservatives":

Simple, Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire

You aren’t just betraying your principles.

Dear Cuckservative,

You are not alone. Like you, Erick Erickson at RedState.com, Matt Lewis at the Daily Caller, Taylor Millard at Hot Air, the blogger Ace of Spades, and Jim Harper with the Cato Institute are all squirming under the lash of this new coinage. They are squirming because a single word–cuckservative–lays bare the rot at the heart of your movement: American conservatism can conserve nothing if it cannot conserve the nation’s founding stock. I’ll put it bluntly: Nothing you love will survive without white people.

Do you stand for limited government and a balanced budget? Count your black and Hispanic allies. Do you admire Thomas Jefferson? He was a slave-holder who will end up on the dung heap with the Confederate flag. Do you care about stable families and the rights of the unborn? Look up illegitimacy, divorce, and abortion rates for blacks and Hispanics. Do you cherish the stillness at dawn in Bryce Canyon? When the park service manages to get blacks and Hispanics to go camping they play boom-boxes until 1:00 a.m. Was Ronald Reagan your hero? He would not win a majority of today’s electorate.

Do you love Tchaikovsky? Count the non-whites in the concert hall. Do you yearn for neighborhoods where you can leave the keys in your car? There still are some; just don’t expect them to be “diverse.” Are hunting and firearms part of your heritage? Explain that to Barack Obama or Sonia Sotomayor. Are you a devout Christian? Muslim immigrants despise you and your faith. Do you support Israel? Mexicans, Haitians, Chinese, and Guatemalans don’t.

Your great festival – CPAC – is as white as a meeting of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. That’s because blacks and Hispanics and even Asians don’t share your dreams. You’ve heard the old joke: “What do you call the only black person at a conservative meeting? The keynote speaker.” Outreach doesn’t work. You can’t talk someone into loving what you love. Faith, patriotism, duty, and honor come from deeply cultural, religious, and ancestral sources you can’t reach.

Why do you evoke Martin Luther King when you call for a “colorblind” America? You know he wanted quotas for blacks. You evoke King because you think he’ll help you silence blacks and liberals. But it doesn’t work, does it? That’s because only whites–and Asians, when it suits them–even think in terms of “colorblindness.” Blacks and Hispanics will squeeze every unfair advantage out of you they can. At what point will they ever abandon their aggressive racial agenda? When they’re the majority just think how hard they’ll squeeze your grandchildren...
What a load of crap, and there's still more.

And this is the kind of conservatism Stogie at Saberpoint is all about? I don't know, but count me out brother, in any case. CPAC ain't all white, you cracker idiots. And true conservatism knows no color.

I really hate this moment of ideological purity we're having, but as folks can see I've taken my stand and it's not with the dolts of the racist Deutschephysik battalions.

Monday, July 6, 2015

Stormfront Founder Don Black Pictured Seated Next to Confederate Flag at New York Times Story on White Supremacists in the Internet Age

Nothing pisses off old Stogie at Saberpoint more than asking him why the Ku Klan Klan flies the Confederate flag. He threatened to ban me from his comments after I asked him about it at his blog.

From what I gather, the standard line, among Stogie and others, is that "only a small number" of people who support the Confederacy today are Klansman. By this time folks know how I feel about it. The heritage argument is fine so long as those advocating it don't completely discount (or lie about) the racist slaveholding foundations of the Confederacy. Stupidly alleging that the North was even more racist just doesn't cut it. Northerners long banned slavery above the Mason-Dixon line and by the 1850s they opposed expansion of slavery in the territories. Only Southerners sought to protect states' rights to own property in slaves. All the rest is bullshit, dumped by the Marxists and radical libertarians who hate the United States.

In any case, Stogie won't like this piece at the Old Gray Lady, but it is what it is, "White Supremacists Extend Their Reach Through Websites":

In late June, as much of the nation mourned the killing of nine parishioners in a Charleston, S.C., church, The Daily Stormer, a white supremacist website, was busy posting articles on a different issue: black crime against white people. “Adolescent Ape Jailed for Murdering White Man Out of Boredom,” one headline blared.

And after Dylann Roof, a white 21-year-old high school dropout and the apparent author of a vitriolic anti-black diatribe, was arrested and charged with the killings, commenters on another white supremacist site, Stormfront.org, lamented something else: the possibility of the massacre’s leading to gun control. “Jews want the white man’s guns. End of story,” one person wrote from Utah.

In the wake of the church massacre, many white supremacist groups have rushed to disavow any link to Mr. Roof and any role in the murders. And while Mr. Roof appears to have been in contact with some white supremacists online, investigators say it does not appear that those people encouraged or assisted in the deadly shootings.

Still, the authorities say, Mr. Roof had clearly embraced their worldview. As investigators comb through the data streams of Mr. Roof’s electronic equipment, a four-page manifesto apparently written by him before the killings offers a virtual road map to modern-day white supremacy. It contains bitter complaints about black crime and immigration, espousing the virtues of segregation and debating the viability of an all-white enclave in the Pacific Northwest.

That manifesto has refocused attention on a shadowy movement that, for all its ideological connections to the white racists of the past, is more regionally diverse and sophisticated than its predecessors, experts say.

They say it is capable, through its robust online presence, of reaching an audience far wider than the small number of actual members attributed to it.

“There’s really not a lot out there as far as membership organizations,” said Don Black, who runs Stormfront.org. “But there is a huge number, I think more than ever, as far as people actively working in some way to promote our cause. Because they don’t have to join an organization now that we have this newfangled Internet.”

Experts dispute the number of movement supporters but agree about its efforts to modernize. While the virulent racism of old can still be found online, the movement today also includes more button-down websites run by white nationalism think tanks with vanity publishing units. Most of the best-known organizations also claim to have disavowed the violence of groups like the Ku Klux Klan.

Richard B. Spencer, the 37-year-old president of the white nationalist National Policy Institute in Whitefish, Mont., embodies this new generation.

He holds a master’s degree from the University of Chicago and studied for a doctorate in history at Duke University. Now he runs an organization that produces papers on issues like racial differences in intelligence and the crime rate among Hispanic immigrants.

“America as it is currently constituted — and I don’t just mean the government; I mean America as constituted spiritually and ideologically — is the fundamental problem,” he said in an interview. “I don’t support and agree with much of anything America is doing in the world.”

But precisely because the movement is more atomized and has been rendered more anonymous by the Internet, law enforcement officials say it has become harder to track potentially violent lone-wolf terrorists who might draw inspiration from white supremacist sites without being actively involved in the organizations.

“White supremacist lone wolves pose the most significant domestic terrorist threat because of their low profile and autonomy — separate from any formalized group — which hampers warning efforts,” said a Department of Homeland Security report issued in 2009. The report came under fierce criticism from conservatives, who said it unfairly painted them as terrorists.

If the movement has a leading edge, it is Stormfront.org, an online discussion forum. With about 40,000 visitors a day, it is perhaps the most popular supremacist site in the world based on page views, with more than a million a month (a figure that includes repeat visitors).

Mr. Black, its 61-year-old proprietor, straddles the movement’s generational divide: a grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan in Alabama decades ago, he later ushered in the movement’s Internet era with Stormfront.org in 1995, and followed up with a two-hour weekday Internet radio show.

Stormfront’s website, operated by Mr. Black out of his home in West Palm Beach, Fla., features the slogan “White Pride World Wide.” It is primarily a chat room, with discussion threads that range from innocuous cooking tips to diatribes against gays, immigrants, Jews and blacks.

Mr. Black said he had broken from the Klan because it had a history of “random and senseless violence.” But he also said he could not rule out violent conflict as white people tried to promote what he called “our heritage, our values,” and attempted to realize the dream of a separate all-white enclave.

“I personally would like to see it play out peacefully,” he said. “Unfortunately I took too many history classes, and history is not filled with a lot of peace. America is becoming balkanized just like the Balkans; we are breaking apart because of Hispanics — particularly in the Southwest — and other races.”
More.

You can see the Confederate flag at the tweet embedded above, but it's very prominent at the photo accompanying the article.

It doesn't matter how many of these idiots pose with the flag. That's just going to ruin it for everyone else, all the "heritage buffs" and so forth, because it feeds into the most terrible associations people have with white supremacy. Unfortunately, Stogie and his ilk simply help the left and its attacks on conservatives. Indeed, Stogie's a leftist as far as I'm concerned, particularly in his postmodernist Derridean social constructionist relationship to the truth.

BONUS: "What the Left, and Sadly, Some Conservatives Just Do Not Grasp."

PREVIOUSLY: "Dylann Roof, Southern Democrat Throwback, is Drug-Addled 'Wannabe Emo Anarchist' with Androgynous Haircut," and "Crazy Emo-Prog Dylann Roof Doesn't Fit the Left's 'Right-Wing Racist White Supremacist' Narrative."

Saturday, July 4, 2015

For Your Library, A Patriot's History of the United States

Following-up on my earlier entry, "Leftist Stogie at Saberpoint Joins Marxists and Radical Libertarians on Civil War Revisionism."

A must-have addition to your library, Larry Schweikart's, A Patriot's History of the United States: From Columbus's Great Discovery to America's Age of Entitlement.

Larry Schweikart photo 11693946_10207477058827623_1357793926436724689_n_zpsace7689y.jpg

What Did Abraham Lincoln Really Think of Thomas Jefferson?

Allen Guelzo's a major scholar of the Civil War era, writing opus-style histories such as Gettysburg: The Last Invasion, and not to mention critical biographies such as Abraham Lincoln: Redeemer President.

And here's Guelzo at today's New York Times, "What Did Lincoln Really Think of Jefferson?":

Lincoln Memorial

GETTYSBURG, Pa. — “Lincoln hated Thomas Jefferson.” That is not exactly what we expect to hear about the president who spoke of “malice toward none,” referring to the president who wrote that “all men are created equal.”

Presidents have never been immune from criticism by other presidents. But Jefferson and Lincoln? These two stare down at us from Mount Rushmore as heroic, stainless and serene, and any suggestion of disharmony seems somehow a criticism of America itself. Still, Lincoln seems not to have gotten that message.

“Mr. Lincoln hated Thomas Jefferson as a man,” wrote William Henry Herndon, Lincoln’s law partner of 14 years — and “as a politician.” Especially after Lincoln read Theodore F. Dwight’s sensational, slash-all biography of Jefferson in 1839, Herndon believed “Mr. Lincoln never liked Jefferson’s moral character after that reading.”

True enough, Thomas Jefferson had not been easy to love, even in his own time. No one denied that Jefferson was a brilliant writer, a wide reader and a cultured talker. But his contemporaries also found him “a man of sublimated and paradoxical imagination” and “one of the most artful, intriguing, industrious and double-faced politicians in all America.”

Lincoln, who was born less than a month before Jefferson left the presidency in 1809, had his own reasons for loathing Jefferson “as a man.” Lincoln was well aware of Jefferson’s “repulsive” liaison with his slave, Sally Hemings, while “continually puling about liberty, equality and the degrading curse of slavery.” But he was just as disenchanted with Jefferson’s economic policies.

Jefferson believed that the only real wealth was land and that the only true occupation of virtuous and independent citizens in a republic was farming. “Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God, if ever he had a chosen people,” Jefferson wrote. He despised “the selfish spirit of commerce” for feeling “no passion or principle but that of gain.” And he regarded banks with special suspicion as the source of all commercial evil. “Banks may be considered as the primary source” of “paper speculation,” and only foster “the spirit of gambling in paper, in lands, in canal schemes, town lot schemes, manufacturing schemes and whatever could hit the madness of the day.”

Lincoln, who actually grew up on a backwoods farm, saw little there but drunkenness, rowdyism and endless, mind-numbing labor under the rule of his loutish and illiterate father. He made his escape from the farm as soon as he turned 21, opened a store (which failed) and finally went into law, that great enforcer of commercial contract. “I was once a slave,” he remarked, “but now I am so free that they let me practice law.”

As an Illinois state legislator, Lincoln promoted a state banking system and public funding for canals and bridges. As a lawyer, according to colleagues, Lincoln was never “unwilling to appear in behalf of a great soulless corporation” — especially railroads — and had no compunction about recommending the eviction of squatters who farmed railroad-owned land.

As president, he put into place a national banking system, protective tariffs for American manufacturing and government guarantees for building a transcontinental railroad. Lincoln was Jefferson’s nightmare.

But Jefferson also held out a second example to Lincoln, as the man who, for all his limitations and fixations, still managed to articulate certain universal truths about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Lincoln understood that Jefferson’s words — if not his practice — formed “the definitions and axioms of free society.” When he was urged during the Civil War to ignore the Constitution’s restraints on presidential power, he echoed Jefferson’s warning against taking “possession of a boundless field of power” by asking: “Would I not thus give up all footing upon constitution or law? Would I not thus be in the boundless field of absolutism?”

And so, Lincoln concluded, “All honor to Jefferson,” who “had the coolness, forecast, and capacity” to fix in the Declaration of Independence the “abstract truth” that all men are created equal, so that it would “be a rebuke and a stumbling block” to anyone who planned to reintroduce “tyranny and oppression.”
Still more.

P.S. Stogie hates Lincoln, but he loves Jefferson the slave-holder, unsurprisingly. At Saberpoint, "Declaration of Independence -- Thomas Jefferson."

Thursday, July 2, 2015

Leftist Stogie at Saberpoint Joins Marxists and Radical Libertarians on Civil War Revisionism

If you've been following the Stogie-Donald debates on the origins of the Civil War, one clear pattern you've seen is Stogie's vehement ideological hostility to facts that disprove his cherished yet deranged view that the South stands for all that's good in the world and the North is the epitome of evil. In fact, history does not conform neatly to partisan, ideological debates, and those who want it to must distort the truth to conform to their historical revisionism and partisan blindness.

Frankly, as I've pointed out, Stogie's basically a leftist. He's been deploying classic postmodernist Derridean social constructionist interpretations of the Civil War that are in fact grounded in Marxist and radical libertarian programs. It's pretty sick and disgusting, when you boil down to it. But Stogie's views are based on hatred and unreason. Indeed, he declared me an enemy in the comments at his blog last week --- this after us being good friends online for 8 years!

In any case, Professor Larry Schweikart, the conservative author of the extremely popular anti-revisionist textbook, A Patriot's History of the United States, is an historian of the Civil War who's published widely in peer-reviewed outlets, including the Journal of Southern History, Southern Studies, and Civil War History. Schweikart took his professional training at Arizona State University and the University of California at Santa Barbara, two institutions not widely known as bastions of "Yankee-biased" historical research.

Another popular book Schweikart's published is 48 Liberal Lies About American History: (That You Probably Learned in School). There you'll find a penetrating discussion whereby Professor Schweikart demolishes Stogie's lunatic ravings on the coming of the war. See for yourself at the photos below, "Lie #39: Northern Capitalist Greed --- Not Slavery --- Drove the Civil War":
"It's hard to believe that with all the available evidence a fusion of Marxists and radical libertarians still want to discount the central place of slavery as the causative factor in the Civil War."
Actually, it's not that hard to believe at this point. Stogie's been offering a full repertoire of far-left, radical libertarian fever-swamp talking points that only a tinfoil crackpot could love.

As always, I'll continue to debate in good cheer. So, don't miss future iterations of the Stogie-Donald debates!

Larry Schweikart photo 11048789_10207463216441572_2475794514150279857_n_zpsibpsgiqa.jpg

Larry Schweikart photo 11703147_10207463216481573_5630500622875122290_n_zpspgqehff5.jpg

Larry Schweikart photo 11709618_10207463216401571_7095130397723981255_n_zpsjgqeyykw.jpg

Larry Schweikart photo 11667536_10207463216361570_3359718833594552021_n_zpsm1wxsjgc.jpg

Monday, June 29, 2015

Ku Klux Klan to Rally for the Confederate Flag at South Carolina Statehouse

The debate continues with Stogie at Saberpoint, who has responded to my earlier post on Fort Sumter. See, "Did Lincoln Deliberately Instigate War at Fort Sumter? Yes, He Did."

Meanwhile, remember at the crux of this debate is not so much who started the war, but why the belligerents were willing to go to war. The North, of course, under President Lincoln's leadership, fought initially to preserve the Union. The South, ultimately, fought to protect states' right to own property in slaves. (The whole debate is at the search link.)

Stogie has consistently said that the South fought to defend against Northern aggression, and that the protection of states' rights to own slaves was never a cause of war.

Okay, well, I guess the KKK never got the memo.

At the Charleston Post & Courier, "Ku Klux Klan to protest removal of Confederate flag on July 18 at Statehouse":


The Ku Klux Klan has been approved to hold a protest rally at the Statehouse next month against removing the Confederate battle flag, with the group calling accused mass murderer Dylann Roof a “young warrior.”

The Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan applied for the permit last week to hold a rally for 100 to 200 people on July 18 on the north side of the Statehouse.

That’s where the Confederate battle flag presently flies.

Brian Gaines, spokesman for the S.C. Budget and Control Board, said the state provides rally space at the Statehouse site when space is available or previously not reserved.

The move was not endorsed by Gov. Nikki Haley. “This is our state, and they are not welcome,” she said in a statement issued by her press office.

In its application permit, the Klan lists equipment needs as a podium and public address access. The group is headquartered out of Pelham, N.C.

Robert Jones, grand dragon for the group, said on Monday that the Klan is a civil rights organization dedicated to white culture and history as symbolized by the rebel banner.

During a phone interview, Jones gave words of support for Roof, saying he erred in going after black people while they worshipped. On the Klan group’s telephone answering machine is a recorded message that refers to Roof as a warrior.

Roof, 21, of Eastover is charged with nine counts of murder in the June 17 shooting at Emanuel AME Church.

All the victims were black; Roof is white, and has reportedly promoted white supremacist activity in his writings and on the Internet...
Interesting that this Robert Jones dude praised the suspect Roof "as a warrior," and he tacitly endorses the murders when he adds the qualification about how Roof was only wrong to the extent that "he erred in going after black people while they worshipped" [sic].

Hey, if those darkies hadn'ta been worshiping, lock and load ye whippersnapper!

I'm sure Stogie's got some canned response to the KKK's support for the suspect Roof and the Confederate flag. I mean, Southerners loved and protected their slaves, right? They protected them right up until the slightest whiff of a fugitive escape, and then slave masters would use their legal rights to beat and whip their black chattel back in line.

Democrat Party racism and violence. That's some Southern heritage, I'll tell you. That's some real sick Southern heritage.

PREVIOUSLY: "Dylann Roof, Southern Democrat Throwback, is Drug-Addled 'Wannabe Emo Anarchist' with Androgynous Haircut," and "Crazy Emo-Prog Dylann Roof Doesn't Fit the Left's 'Right-Wing Racist White Supremacist' Narrative."

BONUS: "What the Left, and Sadly, Some Conservatives Just Do Not Grasp."

Abraham Lincoln 'Plotted' to 'Force the South' to Fire the First Shot at Fort Sumter?

Oh boy.

Stogie at Saberpoint might as well be a 9/11 truther, considering these outlandish blood libels he's spewing against Abraham Lincoln.

Now this is just downright bizarre, from the comments at Mediaite, "Memphis Mayor Wants to Literally Dig Up Confederate General and Move Him":
jim  rmiers1 • an hour ago

Very few people joined up to fight for the union to end slavery. They fought to restore the honor of a nation that had their flag torn town at Ft. Sumter and they weren't going to quit until the flag and their honor were restored. Now to many in the 21st century this sounds ridiculous and archaic but this was the mentality in the mid 19th century.

Stogie Chomper  jim • 28 minutes ago

That's why Lincoln and his staff plotted to force the South to fire the first shot -- by refusing to negotiate the peaceful return of the fort to South Carolina, by refusing to leave, and by attempting to resupply the fort with Yankee warships. People today still mistakenly believe the South started the war by firing the first shot -- but it was started by Lincoln, purposely for its propaganda value, by forcing the issue.
The truth is Lincoln pledged not to fight to reclaim Fort Sumter for the North. Indeed, he nearly let the U.S. Army forces of Major Robert Anderson run out of provisions, and then only sent supply ships to re-provision the troops there with the permission of South Carolina Governor Francis Pickens. But Pickens was an extremist who refused Lincoln's attempt to peaceably re-provision the fort. Confederate President Jefferson Davis piled on the belligerency, ultimately ordering Brigadier General P.G.T. Beauregard to bombard the Union forces at the fort. The North so refused to fire the first shot that Major Anderson responded to General Beauregard's demands to surrender by saying he'd rather run out of food before initiating hostilities.

These are just facts. Don't let old Stogie get away with his conspiracy bullshit. Man, this is really getting interesting. Get your tinfoil hats ready!

And check back for further iterations of the Stogie-Donald debates!

Saturday, June 27, 2015

Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederacy, Honored with Hundreds of Miles of Roads in Former Secessionist States

At the New York Times, "Honors for Confederates, for Thousands of Miles":


A plaque on the exterior of the Hotel Monaco in Alexandria, Va., honors “the first martyr to the cause of Southern independence.”

It commemorates James W. Jackson, ardent secessionist and proprietor of the hotel that was at that site during the Civil War. But he was not the first man killed in the Civil War. Among those who died earlier was a Union officer, Col. Elmer E. Ellsworth, who removed the Confederate flag flying from the hotel. He was confronted and shot to death by Mr. Jackson, who was quickly killed by Colonel Ellsworth’s men.

There is no memorial for Colonel Ellsworth in Alexandria. But there are many memorials for Confederates. Elsewhere in Alexandria, a city right across the Potomac River from the nation’s capital, are streets named Lee, Beauregard, Pickett, Bragg and Longstreet, all Confederate generals. A highway is named for Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy.

In the wake of the mass murder at a black church in Charleston, S.C., Jon Stewart noted in his “Daily Show” monologue, “In South Carolina, the roads that black people drive on are named for Confederate generals who fought to keep black people from being able to drive freely on that road.”

It isn’t just in South Carolina or Virginia. Cities throughout the South have streets, schools and parks named for other Confederate generals like J. E. B. Stuart, Jubal Early and Stonewall Jackson.

At least 10 United States military bases are named for Confederate leaders. A suburb of Houston, Missouri City, has a subdivision with the street names of Pickett, Bedford Forrest (Court and Drive), Beauregard, Breckinridge and Confederate. And on the other side of its Vicksburg Boulevard is, strangely, Yankee Court.

We set out to see just how often Confederate leaders are honored in the 11 former Confederate states by sifting data on street names collected by the Census Bureau.

Davis had the longest length of roadways bearing his full name, 468 miles, followed by Stuart with 106 miles. Robert E. Lee, considered the greatest Confederate general, was third with nearly 60 miles.

It is quite possible that more streets were named for Lee, as we searched for the full name only. Similarly with Stonewall Jackson, who has 40 miles named after him. Using only a last name would also have pulled in any streets, roads and highways named for Andrew Jackson, the seventh president, Maynard Jackson, the former Atlanta mayor — or Bob Jackson, a real estate developer.

Across the entire United States, the most common names honored are Presidents Washington, Lincoln and Jackson. In the 11 former Confederate states, Jackson, with 3,430 miles, and Washington, with 1,701 miles, have the most roadway. Third is the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., with 1,183 miles, then Lincoln, with 683 miles.

These calculations are based on a Census Bureau data set of all roads in the country...
Keep reading.

Meanwhile, Stogie keeps the discussion going at Saberpoint, "More Butt-Hurt for Donald Douglas: The Top Six Racist Quotes of Abraham Lincoln." A key point Stogie notes there, "By today's standards, Abraham Lincoln was a virulent white supremacist and racist."

Ah, by "today's standards."

The problem for Stogie, and those like Professor Livingston who make arguments about how "racist" the Northerners were, is that in the 1850s most everyone except the most radical abolitionists adopted "racist" views on the relations between whites and blacks. And I've asked Stogie repeatedly, "Who claims Northerners weren't racist? Who denies the North was racist?" None of the scholars I've blogged or cited denies that racism was rife in the North. Stogie's argument is a classic straw man, arguing against a point that no one makes.

Further, the key to this debate, on why the South seceded, is the relative positions on slavery of the antagonists, of North and South. Lincoln opposed slavery. He opposed it consistently. And he particularly opposed the extension of slavery to the territories, and by implication --- considering the South's ideological aggression in its belief in property rights in slaves --- to the North as well. Furthermore, after the North's defeat of the South in the Civil War, the old ideology of the Southern nation, and especially Southern beliefs in the subordination of the "darkies," continued for at least a century, into the decade of the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. The Republican Party was the party of emancipation and civil rights. The Democrats, who carried forth the legacy of the "lost cause" and Jim Crow in the mid-20th century, were the party of segregation and white supremacy.

These are just facts. Stogie never addresses these facts other than to further prevaricate with more accusations of Northern racism, or to react with shocked blabbering, "Are you calling me a racist?!!"

No, I am not nor have I ever called Stogie a racist. I just disagree with him on the origins of the Civil War, and he's having a devil of a time winning this debate, especially with his reliance on fringe personalities like Professor Livingston and this economic illiterate Gene Kizer.

In any case, since this post is on how the South names roads to honor the memory of Jefferson Davis, lots of miles of roads, here's Professor Ilya Somin, at the Volokh Conspiracy, with a long entry on why Southern secession was indeed about the preservation of slavery. See, "Slavery as the Motive for Southern Secession in 1861":
Some commenters on my posts on secession (here and here) doubt my claim that the southern states seceded in 1861 for the purpose of preserving slavery. After all, they point out, Abraham Lincoln and the Republicans had promised not to abolish slavery in the states where it existed. This is a common point advanced by those want to claim that slavery was not the main cause of the Civil War. Indeed, it was first advanced by apologists for the Confederate cause in the immediate aftermath of the War in order to paint the Confederacy in a more positive light by demonstrating that it was fighting for "states' rights" rather than slavery. But the claim doesn't withstand scrutiny.

Confederate leaders repeatedly stated in 1861 that the threat Lincoln's election posed to slavery was the main reason for secession. In January 1861, soon-to-be Confederate President Jefferson Davis said that his state had seceded because "She has heard proclaimed the theory that all men are created free and equal, and this made the basis of an attack upon her social institutions; and the sacred Declaration of Independence has been invoked to maintain the position of the equality of the races." Davis was referring to well-known speeches by Lincoln and other Republicans citing the Declaration in criticism of slavery. Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens similarly said that "slavery . . . was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution" and that protecting it was the "cornerstone" of the new Confederate government. Many other Confederate leaders made similar statements.

Why did Lincoln's election cause them to fear for the future of slavery? It is true that the Republicans did not plan to abolish slavery in the near future. But white southerners still saw Lincoln's election on an antislavery platform as a serious threat to the "peculiar institution." Whatever their position on slavery where it already existed, the Republicans were firm in their commitment to preventing its spread to the vast new territories acquired by the US in the Mexican War. That, in fact, was the main point of the Republican platform. Slaveowners believed that an end to the expansion of slavery threatened their economic interests. In addition, the creation of numerous new free states without the admission of any new countervailing slave states would erode slaveowners' influence in congressional and presidential elections and potentially pave the way for abolition in the future.

Perhaps even more important, most white southerners didn't trust Lincoln's assurances that he wouldn't move against slavery in the South. After all, this was the same man who had famously said that "this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free," and that "the opponents of slavery" should "arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction." He meant that blocking the expansion of slavery would eventually put pressure on southern states to abolish it "voluntarily." But slaveowners suspected that he and other Republicans would attack the Peculiar Institution directly if they got the chance. Within the Republican Party, Lincoln was a relative moderate. More radical Republicans wanted stronger, more immediate action against slavery. And their influence within the party might grow over time.

Finally, slaveowners feared that Lincoln's election would undermine slavery in border states such as Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee and even Virginia, which already had many fewer slaves than the Deep South. By using patronage to promote the growth of Republican parties in these states and relaxing enforcement of the Fugitive Slave Act, a Republican-controlled federal government could eventually force these states to abolish slavery. Without strong federal enforcement of the Fugitive Slave Act, slaves from border states adjacent to slave states could more easily escape to the North and border state slaveowners would have incentives to sell their slaves to the deep south, where slaves couldn't run away as easily; this, of course, would undermine the institution of slavery in the border states. If the Republicans could turn the border states into free states and do the same with all the new states to be established in the West, they could create a large enough majority of free states to enact a constitutional amendment banning slavery throughout the country.

It was to head off these various threats to slavery that the southern states chose to secede in 1861. For documentation of all these points, including quotes from Confederate leaders, see historian William Freehling's excellent book, The South vs. the South.

Ultimately, slavery would probably have lasted longer if the South hadn't seceded in 1861. The Confederates clearly underestimated the North's will to fight (just as northerners underestimated that of the Confederates). Nonetheless, they did have reason to see Lincoln's election as a serious longterm threat to slavery. And that fear underlay the decision to secede.
Okay, thank's for reading.

And check back for the next iteration of the Donald-Stogie debates!

Saberpoint on Gene Kizer's, Slavery Was Not the Cause of the War Between the States — the Irrefutable Argument

Man, this book must be really bad.

See Stogie at Saberpoint, "Slavery Was Not the Cause of the War Between the States -- the Irrefutable Argument."

Kizer's book is here.

And here's my response to Stogie:
"The North's economy was based mostly on manufacturing for the South and shipping Southern cotton around the world."

Yes, and cotton was an extremely low-value added commodity, of which the U.S. economy would increasingly marginalize had not the South attempted to export its ideology of property in slaves into the territories, in essence attempting to nationalize the ideology of slaveholder's rights to own blacks.

The fact is, the South had a pre-industrial economy that failed to attract capital, and was already headed for a falling rate of productivity and further economic backwardness. Ironically, what investment that was sent to the South was overwhelming invested in planting, since that's all Southerners really knew how to do -- own black slaves, beat them into vicious submission, to eek out increasingly marginalized returns.

Moreover, insular agrarianism isolated the South, cutting it off from the influx of new people and ideas (people obviously hostile to chattel slavery and much more morally enlightened). Today, the Confederacy, if it had continued to exist, would be a poor primary exporter like the peripheral Latin American economies. Cutting edge industries, back then rail, steel, manufacturing, shipbuilding, and now high-technology information systems, robotics, and nano-technology, would be found nearly exclusively in the North. Folks might as well move to Mexico for all the Southern economy would be cracked up to be.

But again, Stogie, all this stuff you're spouting about the North being the aggressor against the South is more of the mythic national ideology of the South, the same ideology that claimed to favor liberty and states' rights, but in fact pursued tyrannical policies, nationalized economics, used murderous Gestapo-style police force to keep the system in place, and advanced racial ideologies to keep alive a social hierarchy of American apartheid.

Kizer's book is economically illiterate. Yes, the South dominated cotton exports, but economic history shows that "King Cotton" is no longer king. The South was bound to backwardness one way or the other. But by bringing on the Civil War, Southerners guaranteed their experiment from 1961-1865 would wind up on the scrapheap of history, not unlike the Soviet Union (or the Nazis, if you prefer), with which the South's methods of tyranny had so much in common.
As always, check back for future iterations on the discussion of the Confederacy.


Wednesday, June 24, 2015

The South's Ideological Aggression: Property Rights in Slavery and the Outbreak of the Civil War

 ICYMI, "Response to Stogie at Saberpoint and 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery...'"

The last round of interactions on Professor Livingston has fizzled out, and Stogie has tucked tail, not responding to further comments.

Indeed, he's pretty much announced his own personal secession. See "I am a Confederate," and "Survival in a Post-American World."

So, on to the next iteration, if Stogie's up for it. As I've argued, Professor Livingston's piece was mostly a smokescreen, filled with red herrings, designed to deflect attention away from the origins of the Civil War in Old South's white supremacist planter regime. The war was indeed about slavery. The Northern states had abolished slavery and sought to restrict its spread to the territories. The Kansas-Nebraska Act, and especially the Dred Scott decision, destroyed any accommodation that existed regulating the instituion. As Southerners pressed their ideological agenda for slavery, particularly the meme of states' rights, the ultimate irreconcilable differences boiled to a head.

Slavery was the basis for the outbreak of the war.

See Professor James Huston, at the Journal of Southern History, "Property Rights in Slavery and the Coming of the Civil War":
This article proposes an economic explanation for the Civil War --- an explanation based on the existence of a dual system of property rights. The thesis is that southern secession grew out of the irreconcilability of the two regimes of property rights: one in the South that recognized property in humans and one in the North that did not. As long as the United States was fragmented into small market areas these two regimes did not conflict; but the transportation revolution stitched market areas together, and no longer could the effects of slavery be confined to the South. Northerners recognized that, by means of a national market, the effects of the southern labor system could be transmitted to the North, depress the wages of free laborers, and thereby upset its economy. Northerners thereby felt compelled to constrict the effects of slavery. By the same token, southerners, who had placed vast amounts of wealth in slaves, opposed any restrictions on property rights and promptly demanded northern recognition of southern rights regarding slavery --- thereby expanding property rights in slaves from the local to the national arena. Northerners perceived this demand as ideological aggression, and it was the basis for their fears of the nationalization of slavery. Southerners were not going to allow any attack upon the property rights that gave them wealth and income; northerners could not allow southerners to win the battle over property rights because it would cause a fundamental recasting of northern society.
I'll link this over at Saberpoint. Perhaps Stogie will pause his hunkering down for a bit and engage in a new round of discussion.

And be sure to read Professor Huston's piece in its entirety.

States Rush to Banish the Confederate Flag

This is going to be viewed as a huge victory for the radical left.

At WaPo, "Once politically sacrosanct, Confederate flag moves toward an end":

After decades of bitter debate over whether the Confederate battle flag is a proud symbol of regional heritage or a shameful emblem of this nation’s most grievous sins, the argument may finally be moving toward an end.

South Carolina is leading the way for other states, as it considers removing the flag from its capitol grounds in the wake of a horrific racial hate crime.

The historical poignancy is heavy and resonant, given that the killings last week of nine African Americans took place in a church basement just a few miles from where the first shots of the Civil War were exchanged in 1861. Photos that have since surfaced of the accused killer, Dylann Roof, show him posing with the Confederate flag.

The banner was long considered politically sacrosanct in the South, at least among conservative whites. It now appears that a rush is on to banish it, along with other images that evoke the Confederacy and sow racial divisiveness.

“It’s a baby step of progress, but we had to step through the blood of nine dead people,” said former College of Charleston president Alex Sanders, a longtime critic of the flag.

On Tuesday, Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) said his state will quit issuing license plates with the insignia and replace those already on the road. Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam and North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory, both Republicans, also said they want to get rid of such license plates in their states.

And in Mississippi, the top Republican in the state House of Representatives, Philip Gunn, has called for the Confederate battle cross to be removed from the upper left corner of his state’s flag. As recently as 2001, Mississippi voters weighed in by more than 2 to 1 to retain the rebel badge as the dominant feature of their flag.

Meanwhile, businesses are moving quickly to remove the symbol from their inventory. In the space of less than 24 hours, retailing giants Wal-Mart, Sears, eBay and Amazon.com all announced that they would no longer sell Confederate-themed merchandise. Valley Forge Flag, a leading flagmaker, said it will cease to make the banner...
Other flagmakers will step up to meet the demand, but now more than ever brandishing this flag is going to foment a harsh backlash. Folks like my old friend Stogie at Saberpoint are going to be digging in for their final stand.

Continue reading, in any case.

Tuesday, June 23, 2015

New Response at Saberpoint! Stogie Got Game!

Word brah, the old Stogie's got game!

See his classic left-wing "fisking" here: "A Point by Point Rebuttal of Donald Douglas on 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery'."

And my response:
Stogie: Pounding your chest and harrumphing about how you're "winning" the argument is hardly convincing, and actually kind of pathetic.

I don't think you know what a straw man is. This so-called "myth" you talk about isn't part of the mainstream history and standard interpretations of the antebellum institution of slavery, especially conservative interpretations. You're clearing grasping. Further, I don't think you know what federalism is, and you completely ignore my discussion of congressional action on slavery since 1800. You ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative of the innocent South and the evil North. Just because you hate federalism, and especially the doctrine of national supremacy emerging out of McCulloch, that doesn't mean you can blow off such central historical moments in American political development. In that you're like Livingston, who completely decontextualizes the issues and distorts and lies about what Lincoln believed and actually said.

Plus, it's a false premise that "Congress did nothing" to end slavery. Congress continued to regulate slavery right through the 1850s. Remember, as you say, the North was racist just like the South. Abolition wasn't the burning issue for anyone. What was burning is the balance of power in Congress, and the desire of folks like Lincoln to keep slavery out of the North --- because of political questions of power. They did this, of course, because they simultaneously believed Jeffersonian notions of inalienable rights. Racist ideologies among Northerners do nothing to change that fact. Livingston's argument is lame. It's like name-calling. You're doing the same thing, and it's childish. Both you and Livingston distort Lincoln's views on slavery and you ignore his actual words. That's what leftists do. You're both Gramscian and Derridean in constructing false narratives that bear no resemblance to reality. I quoted Lincoln's own words and contextualized them the way Lincoln himself did in his 1862 address to Congress. Just because you don't like it isn't a justification to be dishonest about not only what he said, but about my analysis as well.

Livingston indeed does discuss "presentist ideological agendas." Talking about Senator James DeWolff of Rhode Island, Livingston writes that "it is difficult for us to­day to read the expression anti-slavery without importing our own 21st centu­ry moral sensibilities into it." That is presentist epistemology, and those who employ it are taking history out of context (see historian Gordon Wood, "History in Context": http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/history-context_850083.html). Unfortunately, Livingston's piece employs the very same kind of presentism to decontextualize the development of slavery in antebellum America. He does this throughout his discussion of moral philosophies. Are you sure you've read this article carefully, Stogie, or is your response just more boilerplate "Lincoln is evil" ideology lifted from the radical libertarian fever swamps?

Well, Stogie, the piece certainly is an "ideological screed," as I've shown throughout my essay, but since you share that ideology, you're forced to desperately defend it. Indeed, despite your furtive attempts to rebut Livingston's lies and decontexualization, you simply declare victory, and write that my comments "are those of someone losing an argument, and knows it." Actually, I don't know it. I'm only going on to say what I think of Livingston's writing, and I don't think well of it. He's a hack historian with an ideological ax to grind.

And by the way, my so called "ad hominem" arguments are not in fact the key arguments against this hack. I noted that I'd append a "bloggy" section simply because there's so much low hanging fruit. You yourself have slammed Lew Rockwell numerous times, so it's no surprise you'd blow off Livingston's fringe connections as "irrelevant." I think you're a good man, and I know you're better that that from reading this blog for 8 years.

In any case, thanks for the discussion. I'm learning a lot, as always!
More to come, especially if Stogie's still got game!

PREVIOUSLY: ICYMI, "Response to Stogie at Saberpoint and 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery...'"

Further Response to Stogie at Saberpoint and 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery...'

Okay, following up on my morning entry, "Response to Stogie at Saberpoint and 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery...'"

Stogie commented at the post. Here's my response:
Stogie, I broke the commentary into two sections. Focus on section one, where I make three augments. You do not contest these? And you're arguing a straw man here. I never said Lincoln didn't think blacks were inferior. I also don't deny that the North was racist. You can't address what I actually said so you attack me as "unethical." Frankly, Livingston's argument is shoddy. It's shit. On top of that he's a crank. I entered into this discussion with good faith. You said you had nothing further to discuss until I read the Livingston piece. I've read it. It's a terrible attempt at historical analysis. Do you want to respond to the points I've actually raised?
And I left another response at Saberpoint:
Okay, Stogie, I've read Professor Livingston's piece and I find it to be a terrible piece of historical writing. Here, "Response to Stogie at Saberpoint and 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery...': http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2015/06/response-to-stogie-at-saberpoint-and.html...

At your comment you don't respond to my substantive points. You don't respond to them at all. Livingston makes all kinds of juvenile logical fallacies. Frankly, he's arguing against straw men and phantoms. No one denies the North was racist. You yourself continue to point out the North's racism as if this exonerates the South. The entire country was racist. Further, I've never said Lincoln was anti-racist. I said at the post that Livingston completely decontextualizes Lincoln's positions on slavery, and he issues bald-faced lies about what Lincoln actually said (on the 1862 address to Congress, for example). You don't respond to these because you can't. You fall back to the same tired arguments about how racist the North was, to which all I can say is I agree with you. The difference is that the South seceded. It did not secede because of the tariff. The tariff was a smokescreen for the real issue, which was the freedom of Southerners to own slaves. It doesn't matter how well slaves were treated. It's against universal human rights, the inalienable rights of the Declaration of Independence, to keep and perpetuate chattel slavery. Also, I don't discount the Southern heritage argument and never have. The problem is that those honorable elements of Southern heritage cannot be hermetically sealed off from the deadly and immoral institution of slavery. I'll be glad to continue to discuss the issue. It's not personal to me, frankly. I have no investment in Southern honor. I do have an investment in defending conservatism against the left's diabolical attacks on the right. Why do you insist on helping leftists attack conservatives?
I think I know why Stogie's helping the left? He's proud. He's proud of his Southern heritage. I have no problem with that. I just don't think you can whitewash the South while hysterically demonizing the North and Abraham Lincoln as racist.

Response to Stogie at Saberpoint and 'Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery...'

Okay, continuing with the discussion from yesterday, Stogie remarked at my comment that you "should read the article I referred you to ... until you do, you are wasting my time."

My comment at issue was elaborated here, "Response to Stogie at Saberpoint on Southern Heritage and the Confederate Flag."

The article Stogie's referring to is Professor Donald Livingston, "Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery," which is published in full at Stogie's blog.

There's a couple of ways to respond to Livingston's essay. The first way, and more professional, is to pick apart the essay's historical and logical arguments, highlighting especially Livingston's egregious logical fallacies, historical inaccuracies, and frankly, outright lies.

The second way, more partisan and bloggy, is to attack Livingston as a rank ideological hack, driven by fringe ideological tendencies with about as much mainstream acceptance as Holocaust denial. Purportedly a reputable historian, Professor Livingston's professional biography includes links to some rather steamy Southern revisionist outfits --- the kind of organizations with which I'd never associate and of which I lend very little professional credence. Seriously, the guy comes off as rather a crank.

But more about that later. Let's look at a number of problems with his essay from a straightforward historical and political analysis.

First, Livingston argues that to correctly understand the debate on Southern slavery is to expand the playing field to include the entire United States, and to go back to the Founding of 1787 to grasp the universal acceptance of slavery --- with the concomitant national ideology of white supremacy --- in the Northern states, in New England America especially, shortly after the overthrow of British colonialism. By doing this, one can see that slavery as an ideological system of political, social, and economic racial domination wasn't unique to the American South, but rather was a nationwide phenomenon with uniquely Northern characteristics.

The problem with this argument is that it's an extremely simplistic straw man. I mean, I don't claim to have anything nearing a scholarly familiarity with the historical scholarship on antebellum America, North and South. But just frankly from my wide reading of history and my professional teaching of the Founding, the Constitutional Convention, and the growth of slavery throughout the 19th century, to say that slavery was a "national enormity, an American sin for which every section of the Union bore some responsibility," and to use this as an argument against those who attack the South, is simply irrelevant. Of course slavery was a national institution. Slavery was a thoroughgoing institution in all the 13 colonies by the end of the 17th century. Who argues otherwise? Slavery developed in the colonies and after the Constitution of 1787 for almost 150 years. It did break down into regional varieties, as part of the economic regionalism that took hold in the country. For example, by the early- to mid-1800s, rural agrarianism came to be predominantly associated with the South, and with the invention of the cotton gin, the Southern economy become increasingly the locus of cotton production in the U.S., on the backs of slave laborers.

The debate we're having today is the persistence of racial supremacy symbolism in the present day South, like the Confederate Flag, hardly a sign of Northern white supremacy. But the "national enormity" argument is a logical diversion, a fallacy that's easily exposed.

Second, Livingston argues that in antebellum American "no nation" had developed, in the sense of the national unification seen contemporaneously among the European continental states as Britain and France. Further, he claims that the national government couldn't interfere with slavery in the states, that "Congress simply had no constitutional authority to interfere with slavery in the States." This is just a bunch of ideological hooey. It is true that the U.S. remained a largely agrarian, decentralized nation-state in the early 19th century, but the argument ignores monumental developments in constitutional law that created the foundations for what legal and political analysts identify as national supremacy within the system of political federalism. Crucially, majestic Supreme Court cases such as McCulloch v. Maryland expounded nationalist doctrines that placed federal authority as supreme to conflicting state power. Of course the debate on federalism wasn't (practically) resolved until decades later, perhaps not even until the 20th century. But it's absurd to claim that there was no national ideology or national consensus on federal power in the years before the Civil War. Indeed, why would the Southern states bother developing doctrines of nullification and so forth if no national culture and constitutional power had developed?

Livingston goes on, "Since Congress had no power over slavery, and did not want such power, the only way to abolish slavery would be through individual state action or by an amendment to the Constitution." This makes no sense. While any individual state could abolish slavery within its boundaries, all the 27 amendments to the Constitution have been passed by Congress and ratified by the states, including the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery. Further, major congressional action on slavery took place in 1808 with abolition of the international slave trade, in 1820 with the Missouri Compromise,  and in 1854 with the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Frankly, Congress was at the center of regulatory activity involving slavery right up to the Civil War. Maybe from the perspective of radical states rights' theory Congress "had no power over slavery," but in reality Congress did have such power and passed consequential legislation that shaped national events over decades of time.

Third, Livingston makes a number of bizarre arguments regarding President Abraham Lincoln's positions on slavery, and some of these appear to be bald-faced lies. He argues, for example, that "Lin­coln did not object to slavery as long as it was confined to the South." This is again a red herring, for it's widely recognized that Lincoln was no abolitionist and that even at the time of secession in 1861, Lincoln's fundamental war aims were the preservation of union. Livingston goes on with a number of selective quotations in an attempt to paint Lincoln as pro-slavery as any Southern rebel. The reality is way more complicated, as any historical review of Lincoln political career would recognize. During the Lincoln-Douglas debates, for example, Lincoln made a clear distinction between his acquiescence to slavery in the North and his clearly foundational belief that the Declaration of Independence made all men equal in the eyes of God, and that in the long run the U.S. could not survive with slavery as an institution. When he said a "house divided upon itself cannot stand" it wasn't a political program of abolition as much as a recognition that at some point one side would prevail over the other, either the pro-slavery forces would prevail and slavery would win out over the land or the abolitionists would prevail and slavery would die out altogether.

Livingston in fact lies about the meaning of Lincoln's statement that the United States as "the last best hope of earth." He claims that Lincoln supported colonization of American blacks back to Africa, and that "The 'last best hope of earth' referred to a purely white European polity free of racial strife, and not to a land of freedom for all as it is absurdly interpreted today." Actually, voluntary colonization of slaves and compensated emancipation were just policy alternatives that Lincoln included in his message to Congress in December 1862. A simple reading of the conclusion of his address reveals Lincoln's exceptionalism and his faith in Jefferson's ideals in the Declaration:
Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just -- a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless.
I don't know why Livingston would so blatantly distort what Lincoln actually said, other than to chalk it up to dishonesty. Lincoln's views were complicated and developed along with the political necessities of his day.

And it's important to remember that we can't read present-day moral sentiments into history. That is, we cannot apply 21st century normative commitments to the political mores of the mid-19th century. Livingston in fact attacks his critics as adopting a presentist ideological agenda, but much of his essay employs the exact type of presentist commitments that he so decries.

Finally, Livingston breaks down "the main anti-slavery episodes in the antebellum period," from the Constitutional Convention to the Kansas-Ne­braska Act of 1854. Again, there's a lot of arguments against straw men and even more tendentious connections to the historical record. I'm going to eschew a longer analysis simply to avoid repetition. Suffice it to say that Livingston provides completely decontextualized and selective interpretations of historical events, spurts of analysis that really add up to more of an ideological screed than a dispassionate historical critique.

And that brings me to my second, more partisan and bloggy criticism of Professor Livingston. He is indeed a genuine scholar and is Professor Emeritus at Emory University and an expert on the writings of Scottish Enlightenment philosopher David Hume.

But he's a lot more than that. Livingston's a radical libertarian whose ideas place him at the fringes of respectable historical scholarship. The Ludwig von Mises Institute, which originally published "Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery," is a radical libertarian outfit co-founded by the bona fide crackpot Lew Rockwell. Another co-founder, Murray Rothbard, has the dubious distinction of holding down the lunatic wing of the far-right ideological fringe. (See Jamie Kirchick's discussion of Rothbard's associations with former GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul, at the New Republic, "TNR Exclusive: A Collection of Ron Paul’s Most Incendiary Newsletters," and "TNR Exclusive: More Selections From Ron Paul’s Newsletters." Also, an interesting anonymous online article, "Is it possible for a Jew to also be anti-Semitic? The case of Murray Rothbard.")

Plus, Livingston at one time served as the Director of the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History. Make what you want of this --- and Stogie and Robert Stacy McCain are former members of the League of the South --- but certainly some of the positions of this organization are at the least unsavory and at most completely crackpot, for example, in the group's February celebration of the assassination of President Lincoln (see, "Honoring John Wilkes Booth").

Livingston was profiled at the Chronicle of Higher Education in 2009, "Scholars Nostalgic for the Old South Study the Virtues of Secession, Quietly." According to the piece, in 2003, Livingston founded "the Abbeville Institute, named after the South Carolina birthplace of John C. Calhoun, seventh vice president of the United States and a forceful advocate of slavery and states' rights." And it continues:
On his own campus, Abbe­ville's founder is anything but a pariah. "Mr. Livingston has a great reputation as a professor among his students," says John J. Stuhr, chair of the philosophy department at Emory. "His connection with this institute has not impacted his teaching, research, or campus service by any standard professional measure."

The other Abbeville scholars teach history, philosophy, economics, and literature at institutions including Emory, the University of South Carolina, the University of Georgia, and the University of Virginia. They write books with titles like Defending Dixie: Essays in Southern History and Culture (published by the Foundation for American Education, a nonprofit group "dedicated to the preservation of American culture and learning") and The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, his Agenda, and an Unnecessary War (Prima). They say the institute's work, although academic in nature, is ­really about values. Its members study the South in search of a history of piety, humility, and manners. The scholars acknowledge a history of bigotry and slavery, but they focus primarily on what they say are the positive aspects of Southern history and culture.

To do so, they have created their own guarded society, something of a secession in its own right. Mr. Livingston will not provide Abbeville's entire list of scholars and participants, because he fears "academics who claim to find something valuable in the Southern tradition are sure to suffer abuse." Institute members say they rarely submit work in the field to mainstream journals. Now they are creating a Web periodical, called Arator, as an outlet. The title is taken from an 1813 book by a Virginia planter and senator named John Taylor, who defended "the socioeconomic and political order of an agrarian republic," according to one description.

Still, the outsiders who have heard of Abbeville tend not to like what they hear. One historian, whose research includes the cultural history of racism and white supremacy in the United States, and who asked for anonymity to avoid becoming a target of "Southern identity groups," says the lectures he has listened to on the Abbeville Web site (http://www.abbevilleinstitute.org) are dominated by racialism and are "ideological, through and through." There is the condemnation from the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil-rights group. In 2005, Time magazine pegged Abbeville as a group of "Lincoln loathers." Mr. Livingston initially declined to be interviewed for this article, citing bad experiences with the news media. But he eventually agreed to talk, as did a handful of scholars and students involved with the institute...
I want to discount the article's allegations of racism and its reference to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization to which I have nothing but disdain. I do not know if Professor Livingston is racist. I think it's noteworthy, though, that Livingston's work through the Abbeville Institute is considered way outside the mainstream of historical scholarship and the members of his groups are in fact self-cloistered into an extreme isolation that goes dramatically against the ideal of a universal community of scholars.

In any case, I know Stogie will take exception to the discussion of Livinston's fringe associations, and I've heard it before. Mostly, the point is Livingston's "Why the Civil War Was Not About Slavery" is the product of a programmatic ideological commitment that is so far outside of the mainstream it's literally ridiculous. Thus, on grounds of both shoddy historical analysis and fringe ideological foundations, the case that the Civil War was not in fact about slavery is preposterous. The notion of "national enormity" is a pathetic straw man and Livingston's substantive historical narratives are either red herrings, inaccurate, or outright falsehoods. The man's as fervent an ideologue as anyone writing on the far-left of the ideological spectrum, at outlets such as Rolling Stone or the Nation, to say nothing of the Jacobin or the New Left Review. In any of these examples, you're going to get partisan advocacy rather than scholarship. Unfortunately in Livingston's case his agenda is to disguise radical libertarian screeds under the nominal institutional respectability of a scholarly think tank.

Finally, as noted above, all this debate on the origins and ideologies of the Confederacy distracts from the fact of the matter: the post-Civil War regime of racial segregation, oppression, and terrorism was a product and foundation of the Democrat Party. I mean jeez, President Wilson showcased "Birth of a Nation" at the White House and President Lyndon Johnson bragged, upon passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that he'd have them "niggers" voting Democratic for the next 200 years.

And as I've pointed out in a number of posts this past couple of days, the Democrats did not abandon their racist ideologies after the 1960s. Indeed, as recently as 2008 the Clinton-Gore campaign trafficked in all kinds of Southern segregationist sentiments and Confederate Flag sensibilities. Hillary Clinton, in fact, still has much for which to answer (see, "Hillary Clinton’s History With the Confederate Flag").

I doubt that I'll have much success in changing Stogie's mind about things with this essay. I understand the cultural heritage argument, and as I've said, I respect it. And in fact, I've been learning a lot from Stogie these last few years and I'm thankful. Writing this piece as been further edification for me, and I'm open to further information to help me refine my views. But as it is, the national GOP has read the writing on the wall and it's clear that expressions of public support for the Confederate Flag are out. In fact, it now looks as though all the recrimination over the flag is in fact a liability for the Democrats, and if Republican candidates rightly point out the Democrat Party's ugly racist history then leftists will be eating crow on all their "blame-righty" demonizations.

Until then, check back for further iterations of the discussion.