Saturday, December 27, 2008

Responses to Israel's Attack on Hamas

Israel has launched a massive attack on Hamas in retaliation for the week-long barrage of hundreds of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel's western Negev.

Captain Ed puts the source of Israel's relaliation where it belongs: On Hamas' ultimate designs for the extermination of Israel:

Hamas made it clear last week that they wanted war ...

The world should step aside and quit interfering in the war Hamas so desperately wants and will desperately lose if left to their own devices. As long as Hamas controls Gaza, a state of war exists, and cease-fires do nothing to advance peace, as this year has proven yet again. Tiresome calls for “restraint” don’t work when one side is determined to have war. The best way to resolve this conflict is to allow Hamas to have its war and get utterly crushed by Israel or overthrown by Gazans to avoid that unavoidable conclusion.
Pamela Geller adds this flourish:

Palestinian Militants

Clean out that rats' nest. Kill the barbarians. Do not look left. Do not look right. Do not falter. Save the Jews.

Show the same mercy as was shown Rabbi Holtzberg and his pregnant wife. Might! This is the only thing the enemy understands. Compassion and respect are held in the greatest contempt.

Kill their leaders. Think the last scene in the Godfather. Kill 'em all, all at once.
Now take a look at the response to Israel's move on the "humanitarian" left.

The Booman Tribune says Israel had it coming and its days are numbered:

I doubt that Israel can stop the rocket attacks without further worsening their reputation in the world, which is now about as low as it has ever been ....

You'd think a country that was defending itself from rocket attacks would get some leeway. You'd be wrong.

The European Union called for an end to the attacks on Gaza.

When the European Union issues a call to end your campaign on its very first day, you know world opinion no longer supports your right to self-defense. And when you get to that point, you are in real danger. Israel must realize, soon, that their position is weak.

Israel's reputation worsening? Right. No mention of Hamas' non-negotiable jihad against the Jewish state.

Note that if any nation loses its "right to self-defense," it's lost its right to exist, and that's what the response on the left is all about.

Hamas violated the "lull" in hostilities all year, as
Robert Spencer indicates (with hundreds or rocket attacks throughout the period of "cease fire"). But Ian at Firedoglake calls the Hamas barrage a justified response to Israel's security blockade of Gaza:

What [Israel] doesn't note is that there was a long cease-fire, during which Israel kept blockading Gaza, so that they don't have enough food or water. He's been starving them because he doesn't like their democratically elected government. Not launching missiles hasn't worked for citizens of Gaza. From their point of view there's little reason not to fire missiles at Israel. Being shot by Israeli soldiers probably doesn't seem like a much worse way to go than starving... or watching their children starve.
Actually, Gazans are not being "starved":

Israel has recently closed Gaza checkpoints in response to the attacks, although they have allowed some shipments of food, fuel, and cooking oil through.
But the facts at hand don't matter to the left's Israel-bashers. Here's this "explanation" of the conflict at Echidne's:

I am posting a anxious warning based on what I am hearing. Israelis should dump the neo-cons who are bringing them to disaster. Those idiots, from their comfortable perches in the American establishment are going to get a lot more Israelis and others killed. Let's face another reality, a lot of them, Gentiles and Jews alike, are pretty unsavory characters who market themselves as "supporters of Israel". Some seem to have made a very nice living for themselves based on this. Would peace be as profitable for them?

Their alliance with fundamentalist "christians" should be all the evidence you need of their stupidity if not duplicity. End timers have only two uses for Jews, especially Israelis. Jews are either to be converted to "christianity", perhaps by force eventually, or they are extras waiting to die in their pre-enactment battle fantasies based on the Book of Revelations. As the events around Lebanon this month show, the fundamentalist ghouls can hardly wait for the real slaughter to begin. Their script calls for Israelis to die in the millions.

Failing the fundamentalists' favorite wish, Americans of future times will grow weary of supporting Israel if it is engaged in endless wars, endless conflicts and, especially, if idiocy on the level of this war in Lebanon continues. A constantly attacked Israel will become increasingly militarized and isolated and paranoid. With that will come the destruction of democracy. A nationalistic, perhaps theocratic and despotic Israel is certainly nothing that the vast, vast majority of Israelis or Americans want to see. If someone can convince me that isn't where it is headed I'd really really like to believe otherwise.

I have every confidence that these ideas have been thought about in Israel and elsewhere in the Middle East. I can't believe anything I'm writing here hasn't been more fully considered there where investigating every contingency is a matter of life and death. It is in the United States that they are unmentionable.
The Echidne post echoes the infamous and still-available anti-Semitic diatribe at Daily Kos, "Eulogy before the Inevitability of Self-Destruction: The Decline and Death of Israel."

Basically, as we see from the various commenters on the nihilist left: Israel had it coming, it's lost international support, its policy of self-defense in unjustified and will bring about self-destruction.

In other words, screw 'em ... Israel should die. Got it.

37 comments:

Philippe Ohlund said...

Great post, Donald! :-)

I posted a comment on Jerusalem Post in support of Ehud Barak.

Israel does the right thing.

TRUTH 101 said...

It's irresponsible and criminal to expect Israel to not respond to bombs from Gaza and elsewhere being lobbed into it. Only this time, let them finish the job without interference. Let's see how many real allies Hamas and the rest of these creeps have.

Rich Casebolt said...

I don't believe it ... T101 and I see eye-to-eye on this.

Rich Casebolt said...

And Israel ... by demonstrating that they know the philosophy of precision-guided ruthlessness, and work to protect the innocent in the enemy's midst even as they seek to destroy the enemy ... can be trusted to do this by free people.

In fact, free people ... here and elsewhere ... should do what we can to assist them in this regard.

NO ONE is isolated in this age from the death and misery Hamas and their fellow-travelers seek to inflict.

Will our leaders have the fortitude to do so ... even behind the scenes? I sincerely hope so.

Palinesque }*~*{ said...

I maintain that there is no excuse for acts of terrorism against Israel and that Israel has the same right as every other nation to defend her citizens. I pray for the peace of Israel.

Dana said...

Dr Douglas, just how does Israel win? In 1948, in 1956, in 1967, in 1973 and in 1982, the Israelis thoroughly whipped the Arabs -- and then agreed to a cease fire which left the Arabs defeated in a battle, but never having actually lost a war, never having actually surrendered.

The Arabs were left alive, and strong enough to regroup and fight another day.

Further, seven years might as well be a generation as far as soldiers are concerned. The Arab soldiers who were beaten in 1948 were mostly replaced by 1956; the Arab soldiers Israel defeated in 1967 were, for the most part, not the defeated veterans of 1956.

The majority of the fighters are young men, too young to have been in real combat last time around, and they've taken a few punches but never been beaten.

Let me be very clear here: Israel cannot be free and secure as long as the Palestinians are not physically removed from Gaza and the West Bank, and exiled to Jordan. Had Israel taken the hard path, and expelled the Palestinians following the 1967 war, thereby securing the land and shortening their defense perimeter, this could have been over a long time ago. Now there are so many Palestinians living there that expulsion is probably impossible.

Let me be blunt again: Germany and Japan were defeated because we killed a large part of their fighting aged men, many of their civilians, destroyed their infrastructure and thoroughly ground them and their cultures into the dirt. We did not leave anything that could soon be reconstituted into a fighting force, nor leave them the means to rebuild their military structures in a threatening way, nor give them the freedom to even contemplate such actions.

How can Israel defeat the Palestinians if she is unwilling to do what is necessary to defeat them?

Anonymous said...

Read the truth. As usual,Israel was retaliating, not starting a fight.
http://voanews.com/english/2008-12-24-voa21.cfm

Avi said...

I am an Israeli. I did partake in the 67 war and in the 1973 war and was amazed time and again to see how my fighting soldiers friends, were so considerate towards the enemy. Killing only when it was necessary. Helping when it was possible and humanly required. I gave my last water to a downed Egyptian pilot who came crawling after time in the desert without water.
Yet the Arab enemy is made of a barbarian material. they want all the Jews dead. Unfortunately not all Jews want to comply.
Israel left Gaza 4 years ago. It still supplies them with electric, water, fuel, food and money. Which country in the world does it for its enemy? But it is not enough for the hating world. They want to Jew to die.
Well world, i got new for you, the Jew of today does not want to die for your entertainment. If the Jew will have to die he will take you with him.

TRUTH 101 said...

That's why I say now is the time Dana. In the dates you cited, The Soviets were still in power. And they would have sent God knows how many Bulgarians and East Germans in. It would have been a helluva mess. The Russians and Chinese now have tasted the fruits of Capitalism, if in a limited way. I don't think they would do much but pay lip service to the terrorist world should Israel go ahead and WIN a war. If nothing else the UN is a good place for America and Israel haters to go and bloviate their nonsense. It doesn't really do any good or harm in the long run and it saves them the threat of reprisal should their governments do something stupid like actually attack us.

Just cause I'm a Lib doesn't mean I'm a pansy. I agree with General MacArthur. In war, here is no substitute for victory.

Philippe Ohlund said...

How come there is not an international conservative movement?

The Swedish conservative political party "Moderata Samlingspartiet", is Pro-choice and has made gay-marriages possible in the Church.

Sweden's Foreign Minister, Carl Bildt, who is conservative, condemns Israel's "attack" on Hamas?

European conservatives accept 50 percent income tax on normal wages.

And I have understood that the German Christian-Democrats do not like any criticism of Islamo-fascism.

When President George W. Bush had a hard time in the opinion polls, he actually had no friend in Europe, except for maybe the Polish President.

Why is it that the American conservative movement - which is the best and largest conservative movement in the world - does not build an international network of political allies, who have similar ideas?

Law and Order Teacher said...

I...agree...with...truth 101...snowballs all throughout hell are melting.

Law and Order Teacher said...

I meant to say "aren't" I dumbfounded and mummified.

Norm said...

When the ceasefire ended 8 days ago Hamas started firing the rockets at civilian targets in Israel and the snipers began shooting at the border.

Last week Hamas held a large demonstration in which young man, dressed in a Israeli combat uniform representing the hostage Gilad Shilit begged for mercy in front of the roaring crowd. This week Hamas boasted it would capture a female Israeli soldier so Shilit could start a family

The other day Prime Minister Olmert was on Arab television begging the
people in Gaza to stop the rockets.
He stated that he did not want to use the military against them...so please stop. The response of Hamas was to mock him for his cowardice, and sent more rockets.

Hamas stepped over the line and has enraged the Israeli public. This was obviously done on purpose. Why, at this moment, Hamas decided to goad Israel into an attack...I do not know. Perhaps they wanted Israel to act out of anger and not
thoughtfully. Now Israel will try to make Hamas react out of anger and not thoughtfully.

Hamas looks to Teheran to unleash Hezbollah. The ball is in their court now. Ante up or fold.

TRUTH 101 said...

I would answer Mr. Ohlund's query about an international conservative movement but I seem to be enjoying soem goodwill here right now. I don't want to mess that up this joyous Christmas Season. You do run an incredibly fine blog Professor.

Donald Douglas said...

Compliment noted, Truth101.

Philippe Ohlund said...

You're funny, Truth 101! :-)

And yes, Donald's blog is outstanding! :-)

I think I saw Donald's blog the first time on Clickingfingers when I promoted a business there, maybe some 5 years ago, but it had another name then.

A Finnish person in Li├Ęge, Belgium, had recruted me to sell Nu Skin-products in 2002.

They used to have a depot in Brussels, but after they moved from Belgium, they charged 25 Euros in delivery fee for every 100 Euros of products sold.

After the move from Belgium they were also always out of the ordered products and the deliveries were always a couple of weeks late, so I finished my Nu Skin-business, since it was not interesting or profitable anymore.

But, I have come to read Donald's blog since then, and regularly the past three years. :-)

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Israel should survive. They are courageous, honorable, obvious, cloaked in nothing, transparent; they -- CLEARLY -- don't exist for the purpose of taking territory.

And yet: they are excoriated at every measure.

Anti-Semitism is alive and well globally.

I stand with Israel.

BZ

Tom the Redhunter said...

How about that? Something we can all agree on! I am pleased to see such moral clarity here on the issue of Israel v Hamas. My hat is off to all of you - especially Truth 101. I've had a few libs on my blog who turned out to be supporters of Israel. Really took me by surprise.

That said, Dana posts the $100,000 question; "just how does Israel win?" Even if they knock out lots of rockets and kill lots of Hamas leaders, do the rest not live to fight another day? As Dana surmises, Israel probably does not have the fortitude to do all that it needs to do.

Norm said...

No one wins

Anonymous said...

Now Hamas is getting a taste of their own medicine. There is never sympathy for Israel when ruthless killing by Hamas goes on and on and on and on. The bastards got exactly what they deserve!

CS said...

Yep, that would explain why 250 civilians were killed in Israeli airstrikes.

"COLLATERAL DAMAGE" ANYONE?

You people are bunch of bloviating hyprocitical jackals drowning in a cesspool of your own crap.

Israel is the biggest terrorist state in existence today. Any amount of rug sweeping isn't going to cover up these criminals and eventually, even with all the media control, they will be exposed for the real scumbags that they are.


Of course, any Israeli, non-Israeli, or Jew or non-jew who speaks the truth is conveniently labeled an "anti-semite" so that the issue of Israeli apartheid isn't exposed.

Dr. Norman Finkelstein has said it best, when he talks about the Israeli "holocaust industry", as being a fraud and money-making scheme at the expense of holocaust victims of which he was a part of.

If you are in any way honest with yourselves, you should find out what he has to say.



Of course every Israeli life is worth 250 Palestinian lives. Ohh yes, those Hamas terrorists!

Its sort of like the stone throwing spear wielding kids vs fighter jets and 1000 lb bombs.

1000 lb bombs from kafir Jets are only "self-defense", but ohh those stone throwing terrorists! How could they! Why don't they just except living surrounded in every corner by a bunch of baboons in army fatigues questioning every movement of its people!


You bunch of hyprocrites, I hope you don't sleep well at night after writing the BS that you do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-FLIBkTg8g&feature=related

Anonymous said...

Do you clowns know the definition of "settlements", as it pertains to this conflict?

Settlements = illegally obtained, illegally occupied land.....

Enough said.

Law and Order Teacher said...

CS,
Take a deep breath. Dr. Finkelstein is a great man. In your eyes I guess. Maybe he, Noam, and Howard Zinn can go have a beer somewhere and cuss out America, Israel, and all the imperialistic western nations.

Those evil white people really get under your skin don't they? Israel is a creation of the UN. How about ripping into them? The world saw fit to give that land to Israel in 1948 and we saw fit to recognize them. Therefore, we're in. Sorry, that's the way it is.

Israel has no other friends in the world. I say abandon them and the whole race of people they represent. Normie might like that. That will make you feel better about your white guilt.

Anonymous said...

Hamas is wrong because Israel is wrong. Why? Because violence is wrong. Violence begets more violence time and time again.

Norm said...

Law and Order Teacher:

I do not understand the reason you referred to me in your last post. Could you please explain.

Secondly, the Jewish people did not need the UN to help us create the State of Israel. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE. Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital for the last 3,300 years. Jews were temporarily separated from their nation only because they were fighting the Romans for freedom and lost.

Lastly, anyone who quotes Norman Finkelstein or who starts off with the "you're going to call me an anti-semite" rant is an idiot.

Philippe Ohlund said...

Norm - you write: "No one wins".

Actually, I believe future generations are winners.

Because, they will be able to grow up in a harmonious and liberated free democratic Israel.

And the future generations in Arabia will also be winners and harmonious too, and will be able to do something better with their lives than to constantly fight Israel.

When it comes to the present generation you are right: Then "no one wins".

But the well-being of our posterity is the most important thing.

Norm said...

Phillipe,
I love and support Israel. I also understand that if Israel decides to WIN it will end up standing alone, vilified by the western world, including the Obama administration. The western world does not have the willpower, the strength, the courage to do what it will take to WIN. You will see and hear the whining start very shortly. There will be no winners here.

Sarge Charlie said...

I have confidence that the day is coming when the Jews say that's it, I will not take this anymore, zap, you are now vapor.

Philippe Ohlund said...

Norm, you say that "if Israel decides to WIN it will end up standing alone".

Then you say, "The western world does not have the willpower, the strength, the courage to do what it will take to WIN".

I agree, and you are absolutely right.

So, what will happen is that Israel will lose, but "only" for 42 months, se Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24, and Romans 11:25.

It is called "a time, and times, and the dividing of time", see Daniel 7:25, 12:7, and Revelation 12:14.

The woman - Israel - will flee from the face of the dragon, but the "dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, (the 11 lost tribes of the Western world)which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", see Revelation 12:17.

So when all Muslims have conquered Israel and fill up all of Israel: "the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs (the size of Israel)", see Revelation 14:19 - 20.

"So all Israel shall be saved", see Romans 11:26 - both the Jewish people, and the Western world, the 11 "lost" tribes - because the rider of the horse is "Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war", see Revelation 19:11.

Israel and the Western world will thus at the end win the war after all, thanks to Christ, see Revelation 19:20 - 21.

So there is a Happy Ending! :-)

But, yes, time is short, see Mark 1:15.

TRUTH 101 said...

War is hell CS. And before you start feeling sorry for the "innocent" that Hamas hides among, remember that it's these people that elected Hamas and chose to let them hide among them. Looked the other way, or worse, rejoyced when Hmas fired rockets into Israel killing their women and children. Israel has been the world's whipping boy for longer than I've been alive. They stopped short in Lebanon. They've given back much of what they won in the name of peace. In deference to Mr. Ohlund and Amazing Grace, Israel has turned the other cheek Lord knows how many times. Israel is out of cheeks. Land for peace doesn't work. It only makes the bad guys want more land.

Grace Explosion said...

Hamas = Nazi to the nth degree.

That's the reality of a group that demands the genocide and annihilation of Israel and all Jews (and all non-Islamics) as their only "terms of peace".

In fact, the reality is:

Islam = Nazi to the nth degree.

That's the reality of a religion that demands the genocide and annihilation of Israel and all Jews (and all non-Islamics) as their only "terms of peace". There is NO PEACE with this religion or with this terrorist group. They are bent on world domination through worldwide genocide.

I submit that we challenge all non-Islamic leftist bloggers to move to GAZA, or IRAN, or some other Muslim nation. Especially the WOMEN leftist bloggers. Especially the leftist bloggers who are PRO-homosexual... or homosexual. I submit that we challenge them to put their lives, and their blood, where their mouths are - in defense of those who will their genocide and annihilation and their forced submission to Sharia law or punishment of death.

Go for it. Go for it, leftist bloggers... move to the areas that you support... and see if you keep your head on your shoulders (literally) as you play the devil's advocate. Let's see how grateful the devil of Islam is for your support - and how he rewards and repays you.

Willing to take up the challenge leftist bloggers??

Why not?? What's the problem?? You don't want to end up being murdered - yourselves - as you advocate that others fail to defend themselves against such evil, yes... EVIL??

(eye rolling icon) The obvious becomes obvious when one's own life is the life being threatened.

Let's see you take the advice you give to others, leftist bloggers. Physician, heal thyself.

Grace.

CS said...

truth,

What are you talking about, land for peace? Israel is a country that was formed from stolen land, and created by the United Nations based on the zionist lobby. PERIOD. If the United Nations mandated that the Natives be given back their land will you be willing to get your arse out of America? I am sure this neocon blogger and the rest will be more than happy boot themselves out of america and let the Natives regain their place? NO?

I am not advocating that we revert to past history to mend mistakes. Mistakes were made then, and the most honest proposal for any "peace" deal is as dr. Finkelstein and other notable scholars such as Raul Hillberg, haVE proposed, that is the internationally recognized borders pre-1967 war.

All this "land for peace" BS, is exactly that, BS for people like mr. neocon and buddies to talk talk and talk and pretend like Israel is making "concessions", when infact they havent' made any concessions. They used Yasser Arafat as a tool to get what they wanted, and now they are using Hamas as a tool to continue the occupation.

If you are interested in details, and not talking points, you should watch the debate between shlomo Bin Ami (former ISRAELI minister and Dr. Finkelstein), they are both intelligent and seemingly rational people in a pile of rubbish.

The link is above in my previous post.

HAVE A NICE DAY

CS said...

Grace, take a look at the record of people of "Islamic faiths" and the record of Christian faiths, and come back to me and tell us all who has created the most havoc on human lives from a historical perspective.

I will then proceed to laugh in your face as usual.

History can be viewed through a distorted lense, by people like yourself, but history cannot be changed.

ITs too bad for Christian fanatics like yourself, that Christianity has the WORST record when it comes to cost in human lives.

Then again, why would you be interested in history or factual information right? There's no difference in fanaticism, whether its Islamic, Hindu or Christian......

YOu're just a good example of Christian fanaticism. Thats all

have a nice day.

Grace Explosion said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Grace Explosion said...

CS,

I hesitate to respond... because you're baiting me on a personal level.

Suffice it to say, that neither the Pope nor leaders of Protestantism in the Christian Church call for genocide of unbelievers or apostates of the Christian religion. Furthermore, the Christian religion has done so many wonderful good works in liberty in love... and in fact have provided this great nation in which you have free speech.

One would think you would be thankful to Christians. If it wasn't for us... probably the whole world would be under Sharia law.

The West stands against Islam and communism...as the result of it's Christian heritage and the remaining influence of acculturated Judeo Christian principles.

Were it not for the West, and Christian influence, there would most likely be no freedom or liberty in civilized Government that respects human rights and maintains lawful order in society on this planet.

One would think you would be grateful for the influences that keep you both safe and free. But, then again, maybe you're Islamic. Christians have pretty much provided you with the blessings you enjoy today - if you live in a free nation.

Solace said...

Nothing but bull****.

If this was just a retailiation against hamas then fine. But it isn't like that.

Why is it that Israel is taking the land away from innocent people during this little conflict?

I say Israel is in the wrong here, if they wasn't so greedy then there wouldn't be such a conflict.

If any thing it was Israel that started all of this. They kept taking land away from innocent people, now they have the gaul to build a wall to keep the rightful owners of the land out.

Something it irresponsible for israel not to retaliate against Gaza. Well I find it pathetic when People get shot for just protesting and throwing stones.

Take the American woman who died, she protested with no violence of any kind, yet she was shot dead. The American rep on the news said it was self defence that is why she was killed. Bull, how is it self defence when you are unarmed and not violent in anyway?

If you think Israel is in the right then why the hell did they attack the red cross aid ship that was trying to send aid of medical supplies, food, water?

No matter how you look at it, Israel is in the wrong for doing what they are doing. Gaza has no tanks, or anything of the like, yet Israel are gathering tanks along the boarders, they are also now gathering tanks on the boarder of Egypt. If anything this little assault is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at stealing more land from innocent people.

Anonymous said...

Actually, this war has gone on now for 2,000 years even prior to the creation of the State of Israel, so it's actually more of a territorial and property rights fight as are most wars and groups that seek not to enjoy what they have, but attempt to take some more. They want the land that they lost and includes their holiest relics, as Israel also. To Christians it is actually purely a place of historical relevance in the life of Jesus, since Christian beliefs are that God is spirit and everywhere, not particularly in Israel. It's only the far right wing that ascribe to the end of days scenario with respect to their unconditional support for Israel. The State of Israel was created by a treaty they signed and things then went downhill from there with both groups wanting domination and control of the region and it's government. Two faiths whose extremist members collide in their interpretations of their sacred documents, and the Christian far, far right wing who also have lost sight of the story of the Good Samaritan (hated then amongst the Israels more so than even these extremist terrorist groups) and the Sermon on the Mount.

So much for the background, Israel certainly has the right to defend it's land and citizens against invasion or attack. I think though that this response has been a little over the top, and just might have to do with an Israeli election coming up also. But no one seems to want to know the facts, it is emotions now that are involved. I don't foresee a solution to the Middle East situation in my lifetime, nor probably my children's, I just think at this point the U.S. has given Israel more support, both financial and militarily, than any other nation on the planet, and the lives of a great many of it's citizens, and we need to let the sovereign State of Israel now handle it's terrorists attacks, while we address, find and finish ours.