Tuesday, February 3, 2009

Mark Thompson and the Scientific Falsification of God

It's certainly cliche to suggest that faith in the public square is in retreat. Of course, while polls show that Americans by a huge majority "believe in God or a universal spirit," there's nevertheless an extremely vocal and increasingly influential contingent on the progressive left that is intent not only to deny the potential epistemological basis for religious faith but to excoriate anyone who deigns to make a reasoned case to that effect.

I normally don't get involved in these tussles, but with the vicious neo-Stalinism we've seen on the left in response to California's Proposition 8 and the Warren invocation (and that's just for starters), it's pretty clear that the hordes have swept over the windswept passes of the barbarian steppes and folks of good standing need to stand a post and do battle in defense of eternal goodness and right.

What got me going on this is Mark Thompson's crudely pedestrian essay, "
Falsifying the Unfalsifiable," over at the Ordinary Gentlemen.

Readers may recall that Mark is the publisher of
Publius Endures. Once a staunch libertarian, Mark has sold out to the Obamessianism that has engulfed the land following "our national holiday from reason that was the Obama presidential inauguration" (to quote myself). In one of the strangest introductions to a blog post I've ever seen, Mark cites Homer Simpson - that's right, that Homer Simpson - as an authority on the ontology of religious faith and evangelical trust, arguing that the Simpson's get right to "the crux of the problem." And to think, Robert Stacy McCain generously called these guys "intellectuals." Go figure?

In any case,
here's a key snippet of the point that Mark is trying to elaborate (and elaborate ... frankly, ad nauseum, at least 25 times at the piece):

For the religious person, there is simply no way to prove through science that god exists or does not exist - as long as there is something in the universe that cannot rationally be explained, there is a basis for trusting in the existence of god. For the atheist, there is likewise simply no way to prove through science that god exists or does not exist - as long as a scientific or rational explanation for anything in the universe is theoretically possible, there is a basis to trust in the ability of reason to explain everything, and no basis to trust in the existence of god.

And this is why I think Chris -
and E.D. - are absolutely correct in stating that the proper response to the question of the existence of god is “Who Cares?” The existence of god simply cannot be proven or disproven through pure reason, and neither side does themselves any favors when they insist otherwise.
I think Mark wants to say "there is no basis for trusting in the existence of God" in the first paragraph, but if it's not clear in the passage cited, we've got redundancies galore at the post to confirm the point.

And this is why I'm spending time to correct Mark, and, frankly, to reveal him even further as the rank nihilist that he is.

I'm still figuring out where Mark and his gang are coming from, but they certainly aren't conservative, despite the circle-jerk exclamations for Culture 11 found repeatedly at the blog. Think about this in the context of this essay from the Calgary Herald, "
At Least Atheists Got Mentioned":

People appear very keen for a lot of things to change on the Obama watch. One of those hopes is that Christianity would revert more to a private choice rather than the state religion it often appeared to be under George W. Bush.
Now before I debunk this slimy palaver, I just came across Troy Anderson denouncing those of faith who respond to such bunk as "Christian apologists."

Really, Christian apologists?

So we've got those on the left hip to the "Age of Obama" who are looking to see Christianity revert to a "private choice" rather than a "state religion"? And those who debate in favor of the existence of God are "Christian apologists"?

Sometimes I doubt this is the same United States of America where I grew up?

When Mark Thompson slops out such intelletually deadening prose as " the lunacy of religion attempting to masquerade as science," I'm frankly at a loss at the metaphysical methodology of the enterprise.


The fact remains, and it has thus been, that there is no epistemological basis for asserting religion as science in the first place. It's a sickly straw man to posit intelligent design as threatening nearly fifty years of post-Engel secularism in U.S. constitutional jurisprudence. If we see science as the scholarly generation of explanatory theory based on logically derived predictions based on observable phenonomen, it makes little sense to suggest religion is "masquerading as science." There is no data with which to subject the claim that "God exists" to falsification. Sure, we can debate the scientific legitimacy of the Gospels, but to find proof for the verity of the divine is nonsense. Perhaps Mark Thompson can clarify the point in a future post, but thus far he's been too busy playing ring around the rosie with Freddie and the rest of this nihilist gang.

The larger question in any case is the problem of Judeo-Christian ethics. When Christopher Hitchens argued early this decade for the morality of regime change Iraq, it's unlikely he was drawing on any other well of fundamental right outside of the Biblical narrative of Mosaic universality.

It is, of course, precisely this Western Judeo-Christian heritage that the progressive left seeks to destroy. Andrew Sullivan is no conservative when he promotes a gay radical licentiousness that knows no moral boundaries. Thus, the solution: just rebrand the model in your own image and label adherents to classic teachings as "Christianists." I mean really, Mark Thompson cites
E.D Kain as suggesting "who cares"?

Well, excuse me, but damn! I'd think we all would. The West is best. QED.

I'll have more on this later, so I'll close with
Licia Corbella's rebuttal to the privileging of atheism over religion in the public square:
The atheist ethic has killed more people than any religion by a staggering margin. Fascism, Nazism and Communism have murdered many tens of millions of people. Think of the former Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam, the Nazis, Communist China etc. Mao Zedong's regime alone murdered 70 million countrymen. Stalin, 20 million. Their successors millions more. To this day, Falun Gong and Christians are jailed in China and then killed to harvest their organs.

It's no coincidence the freest, most prosperous nations in the world are virtually all Christian-based, not atheist or even Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu. As the Bible says: "Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

With the exception of Japan, which had its democratic system imposed on it by the U. S. after the Second World War, and Israel, which is Jewish, no non-Christian country is truly free.

Atheists make up a very small minority of the "believers" in our society and yet it is their religion that is constantly being rammed down the throats of the majority.

They better be careful what they wish for. So should all people who love freedom, regardless of what they believe.

11 comments:

shoprat said...

I have said, half-seriously, half-jokingly that Gagdad Bob at One Cosmos is the smartest man on the internet. A psychology professional, his blog is mostly discussing the likelihood and meaning of God's existence. He is best described as an unorthodox Christian, and his blog is well worth the time to read and meditate on.

http://www.onecosmos.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

"With the exception of Japan, which had its democratic system imposed on it by the U. S. after the Second World War, and Israel, which is Jewish, no non-Christian country is truly free. "

Which side of the shit pile did you pull this one from Sir? I suspect this is part of the Judeo-Christian elitist hypocrite pile?

What about those great Christian liberators who drove half the colonized countries of the world into third world status? You know, like the Brits, French, Spanish, Dutch Portuguese? I am sure you think those poor chumps got a good deal out of it huh? They got some good ole' British butt-raping and theft in return for some attempted Judeo-Christian indoctrination of a country that now is considered one of the most culturally vibrant in the world.

What an awful bunch of ungrateful colonized chumps!

DFS said...

There's a lot to this debate and I've read the original post, but I'll keep my comments to the portion of Mark Thompson's post you quoted.

For the religious person, there is simply no way to prove through science that god exists or does not exist - as long as there is something in the universe that cannot rationally be explained, there is a basis for trusting in the existence of god.

The first part of this statement is true, but the second half seems an attempt to imply that the only reason to believe in God is if there is something that cannot be rationally explained. This assertion really surprises me with it's absurdity. It's actually reason that leads me to believe in God.

For the atheist, there is likewise simply no way to prove through science that god exists or does not exist - as long as a scientific or rational explanation for anything in the universe is theoretically possible, there is a basis to trust in the ability of reason to explain everything, and no basis to trust in the existence of god.

Here he's trying a bit of sleight of hand. He first talks about science not being able to disprove God, but then tries to slide in reason as a synonym for science. And trying to come to a conclusion, therefore, that there is no basis for belief in God is absurd. As I've stated, it's reason itself that leads me to believe in God.

Anonymous said...

Phillippe, based on your assertions that "western culture is somehow the best and most civilized culture in the world", you don't hold very high standards for culture do you??

If this is the case, how would you explain the countless attrocities attributed to those that parlayed "Western culture"?

Where in lies the sanctity of slavery, apartheid, and the sacred colonialist adventures? Are they part of the moral high-ground of the Western culture that you espouse?

Laura Lee - Grace Explosion said...

Can they prove there is no God??

The fact is that God is ABOVE science. You see, science is "natural". God is "SUPERnatural". God is superior to science. The Creator is greater than His creation.

God is not limited by natural law, being supernatural,and cannot be limited within the realm of time and space according to natural law as if God were subject to natural law and imprisoned therein under the power of natural law.

Why would this fool think that God can be proven or disproven by virtue of the realm beneath His own dignity as Creator?? According to scientific laws of mere creation??

That's like saying that we cannot prove, however, that there was a Picasso because we cannot encapsulate Picasso within one of his paintings. We see the painting. We see the signature. We accept there was a painter. But the painter is greater than his painting and cannot be defined as mere paint, or canvass, or frame. He is greater than his work. He is the creator of his work. You will not find the painter "in" the painting - but if you step back and look, only a fool could surmise that the canvass came into existence of it's own will and then painted itself.

Tom the Redhunter said...

Where do you live, CS? It had better not be in a Western country, since you hate us so much.

Or are you one of those self-hating leftist hypocrites who live in the West and take full advantage of it's riches and freedoms while denouncing it?

LFC said...

Licia Corbella: except for Japan, "no non-Christian country is truly free."
Oh? What about India, the world's largest democracy, with population well over a billion? It's far from perfect, of course, but it is a recognizably democratic political system w/ a vibrant free press. I don't know what Licia Corbella's been smoking, but I don't think I want any.

EDGE said...

Great post, Donald!

Anonymous said...

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Rich Casebolt said...

"the lunacy of religion attempting to masquerade as science,"

How ironic for Mr. Thompson to say this, for Licia Corbella nailed reality here:

Atheists make up a very small minority of the "believers" in our society and yet it is their religion that is constantly being rammed down the throats of the majority.

Not to mention leverage the lack of a Diety (a super-human one, that is, for they perceive themselves as sufficiently omniscient to accurately and completely perceive the Universe), in attempts to render the public discourse spiritrein and exclusively theirs to exploit for promotion of their views.

Memo to Mr. Thompson: the assumed self-omniscience of the atheist community has repeatedly expressed itself in the very lunacy you decry.

Until those of the atheist faith admit that their viewpoint is in many ways as faith-based as Christianity ... and admit to their own perceptual limitations when it comes to their use of the scientific method to justify their own ideologies ... this conflict will continue,

BTW, LFC ... when Hinduism was in full flower in India, its people were subject to the soft oppression of the caste system. This only changed after the Christian influence of the British was applied to the nation, so the example of India does not prove your point.

And CS ... your talking points have already been rendered D3 -- discussed/debated/debunked ... years ago. If we are so oppressive, then why do we have an illegal-immigration problem?

Anonymous said...

Oh the hubris from the left. Better to be safe than sorry.