Now, I’m not expecting much from someone with a No-Bama icon who thinks that Melanie Griffith has written books about why the right wing is awesome, but if you’re claiming to be a political blog, be a f*cking political blog. Even if you’re a stupid political blog, even if your political blog has no basis in reality, be a f*cking political blog. Objectifying women doesn’t count as “culture analysis”. So cut it the f*ck out, and stick to what I’m sure is your wealth of knowledge on foreign policy and the educational system or whatever.That's just the conclusion, so RTWT.
And the record, I can't stand feminist ayatollahs, and amazingly, you find them on both the left and right. It's an ideology of hate and anti-rationalism. STFU sums up the views perfectly, and since this lady, "Miss Olga," blows off Melanie Phillips so breezily content-free, we'll put her in the "Own Goal" category. Folks really do need to make an actual argument if they want to be taken seriously, which is why I like debating conservative women like Cassandra and Opus 6, who don't care for objectification too much either but they're more than able to defend their positions.
And by the way, if you're not reading her, check out Cassy Fiano for the best feminist deconstruction in blogosphere.
35 comments:
I'm sorry...do you really need a complex argument for why what you're doing is objectification? Every post filed under women (with the exception of this one, which is hilarious)is about how hot all of these women are. Nothing of substance, no commentary on our culture, or the politics of these women, but just how physically attractive you find them. That's the definition of objectification, and unfortunately, it doesn't fit into the grandiose scheme that you yourself gave your blog.
As for your "deconstruction of feminism", it's total crap. Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to support female candidates simply because they're female. No one has ever said, "You can't be conservative and be a feminist". However, you can't be a feminist and in the same breath claim that you know what is best for the reproductive decisions of all women. You can't be a feminist and want to criminalize abortion, you can't be a feminist and simultaneously not trust women to make their own medical decisions.
I challenge you to define what makes me a "radical" feminist. Go ahead, read my blog, pick out anything you want. The only thing I want is gender equality. Radical, huh?
You really are clueless.
For the record, the term sexist does not mean insufficient pandering to delusionally self-important females.
Miss Olga:
You attack me for "objectification," which is itself a feminist construct. I like beautiful women while at the same time I support and promote the full inclusion/opportunity of women in the political econony. You are totalitarian, on the other hand. You clearly support support infantide and you have no clue as to what conservative women have to say about life --- it's not "abortion," duh. It's preserving life, which is why defining you as a radical feminist is perfect, since you're clearly obssessed with killing the unborn in furtherance of some ideologically defined utopia of women's rights. It's sick frankly, but at least you've deigned an argument, insuccessful as that might be.
Do these ladies understand the concept behind Rule 5 blog traffic optimization? Increased traffic means getting your political message out to a wider audience, hopefully. All's fair in love and war.
Right now we are in a war of words and ideas. Sorry ladies. Find your own marketing methods.
First of all, my blogger name is "Miss Ogny", a play on the word "misogyny". I've heard what plenty of conservative women have to say about "life", and unfortunately, the majority of it is slut shaming, judgmental, and insulting to the millions of women who have made the decision to terminate a pregnancy for a myriad of reasons.
Interestingly, the majority of the "pro life" movement also believe in extreme fiscal conservatism, which involves decreasing welfare benefits, as well as arguing that it is not the government's place to provide child care, health care, or any other sort of social service to underprivileged women that carry pregnancies to term.
"Pro life" is about the government intervening and preserving life but only until life is out of the womb. Then it's welfare queens and bastard children be damned as far as the movement is concerned.
And you have no idea what my personal position is. I fully support the idea that men and women can be adamantly against abortion in their personal lives and be feminists. However, you cannot impose your moral and/or religious views on an intensely debated philosophical question on other people.
And to lin...I understand that. My blog doesn't "pander" to anyone, and it doesn't just address "women's issues". Nor does the substance of my blog consist entirely of changing the names of people and political parties into insulting names. That kind of "debate" should probably be left to elementary schoolers.
Also, Miss, what about the women's rights of the young females you abort. Your mother gave you life. Was she a fool?
I won't even try to argue with you about the lives of the little boys. You don't seem to care much about male rights. :-(
Our individual rights stop where the individual rights of others start. You either respect your babies when they are the size of a grain of rice or not. I respected and protected mine. One of them just graduated from UCLA. Top THAT!
Look, since you think typos are epic fail (Melanie Griffith), I think I'll stick with Miss Olga (especially since I'm not misogynist).
But I'll clue you in, since you clearly have badly misinformed stereotypical views of what being pro-life means. I can't speak for others, and some do advance a deeply religious view of human life, but to be pro-life simply means placing value on that little person who is growing inside the womb from the moment of conception. No one knows when cognition begins. Some science says it's likely within days of conception, so a first-trimester abortion is tantamount to murder. I don't like it, period. And clearly, Miss Olga, you are upset not so much with the pro-life position, but the right's opposition to big government. The way to help people, so you know, is not to put them on state dependency and welfare. It's to educate them to the best of their abilities so they can make choices on how best to live and raise their families.
But keep commenting. I really love to see extremist totalitarians in action.
Do people seriously believe that feminist want every baby aborted? Really? Feminists just believe that abortion should be a choice, as having family should be a choice. Not every woman wants children. Not every woman that wants children can afford to have them.
And Opus #6, feminism isn't trying to take away the rights of males, unless you count the ability to discriminate others as a right. Sometimes they even try to give men more rights, like trying to improve paternity leave laws so that fathers can spend more time with their newborn children.
It's not fun when some whiny harpy irrationally calls you a sexist, is it Don? Now you now how it sounds when you do it to me. And notice the lack of a self-portrait at her site. In my experience that means that she's significantly less than Katy Perryesque, know what I'm saying?
And I can top THAT! Opus #6: I've never polluted the world with my spawn (that I know of, *wink*wink*). The next time you're not sitting in traffic or you get a great parking spot at the mall, you're welcome.
My mother chose to carry me to term and raise me, she was not forced. My parents were in a very difficult situation and worked very hard to do so. I cannot say that I would have made the same decision that they did.
I do not see fetuses as being persons. They are human, yes, they are living, yes, but insofar as a person has been legally and philosophically defined as one that has been born, a human being that is independent of another human being in terms of biological function, fetuses do not meet that definition. Not everyone agrees with me, and the great thing about being a feminist is that I'm not out to force people to agree with me. I'm just out to make sure that their views do not assert themselves over my uterus.
Your characterization of my views as "totalitarian" are laughable, until one realizes that you actually purport to be a professor of political science. There is nothing "totalitarian" in believing that women have different views and circumstances and should have access to abortion if they so choose. There is EVERYTHING totalitarian about believing that all women that are impregnated should be forced to carry that pregnancy to term.
And by the way, the abortion debate has nothing to do with my original gripe with your blog, which is that the "women" category is solely you rating which "babes" you find physically attractive. That seems out of place on a political blog, and it adds nothing to the discourse.
And Opus #6, my blog has dealt many times with the negative ways in which strict gender roles affect men AND women. I think it's awful that boys are ceaselessly mocked for having "feminine" traits or interests, and I think it is reprehensible that that we do not have legal protections for stay at home dads. So your claim that I hate men or I'm not concerned with gender equality but rather with gender domination is just a stock anti-feminist argument that is provably false, given the content on my blog.
Have you ever noticed that any discussion with the Left almost always turns into "Its all about them?" Poor babies are so misunderstood. "Ms Andry" would be a far better name for"Miss."
Miss Olga writes:
"I do not see fetuses as being persons. They are human, yes, they are living, yes, but insofar as a person has been legally and philosophically defined as one that has been born, a human being that is independent of another human being in terms of biological function, fetuses do not meet that definition. Not everyone agrees with me, and the great thing about being a feminist is that I'm not out to force people to agree with me. I'm just out to make sure that their views do not assert themselves over my uterus."
I've made no case on when a fetus becomes a person. All I've said is that killing human life is wrong. Your epistemology is contorted and wicked, for you privilege radical feminist autonomy and choice before that of moral choice on the life of society's most vulnerable --- the unborn. I don't care for it and you've made no compelling defense of it.
Related: I've never disagreed that I'm posting women who're hot. You attacked me for objectifying women. Fine. (And you insist on what's acceptable for posting on a political blog, i.e., more totalitarianism.) I took it to the next level, which is that "objectification" is a totalilzing construct of the radical feminist ontology. To say that it's not okay to admire a women's beauty is to say what others can and cannot do. And you're one who claims to want choice over what one does with her uterus?
Rethink your assumptions, Miss Olga. Would you attack me as a "purpoted" political scientist if I was regurgitating the radical left's neo-Marxian totalitarian line? It's not liberty you seek, but complete conformity. Women have more choices than ever in today's world. What you don't want to acknowledge is that leftist women make poor choices when they wind up in need of an abortion and welfare.
Well said, Don. You're sounding slightly more logical than normal today. Two caveats: 1) Your "saying what others can and cannot do" seems to be fairly arbitrary, i.e. whatever you personally do or do not agree with. Why not allow other people to do or not do things you disagree with if they don't personally harm another person? Why involve a nanny state government in our personal lives? And 2) I'm fairly undecided on the issue of abortion myself but I do know that many women wind up in need of an abortion and/or welfare through no choice or fault of their own, leftist or not. You're obviously passionate about this issue but your callousness towards women who need help in our society is hardly necessary. And then of course there's that whole nanny state thing again...
If you really are against the ending of all forms human life as you claim, then surely you're anti-death penalty, anti-war, and oppose the eradication of cancer cells. Are you really arguing that although a fetus is not a person, it should be afforded all the rights of a legal person? Should a fetus be listed as a child on IRS tax forms? If not, then it doesn't make any sense to claim that an abortion = killing a person. That's what you're implying even though you attempt to get around the difficult questions surrounding personhood by claiming that's not your concern, your concern is all human life.
As for being "totalitarian", of course you're free to post whatever you want on your blog. But if you're claiming that your posts on who is "hot or not" are relevant to the purpose you state in your blog header, you're wrong. And if you're claiming that the fact that all of your posts tagged as posts on "Women" have to do with physical attractiveness has nothing to do with objectification, you're wrong again.
Miss, all I can say is I'm glad I ended up in my mother's uterus and not yours.
Miss Olga:
You're now arguing from a position of obfuscation, distortion, and projection --- and you're not winning the debate.
The shift to the death penalty is a red-herring, since criminal defendants are afforded due process of law in defending against criminal charges, most likely being that of murder. I've made no claim here on the death penalty, or war for that matter. You're throwing in everything but the kitchen sink as if that's a form of argumentation.
And again, you're saying I'm "wrong" on something I've never denied. You call it "objectification" of women. I call it admiring beauty. And apparently you don't read well, since my blog heading clearly announces commentary on culture. And our culture today is if anything a testoserone driven babe-loving sex-craving culture in overdrive. It's good for blog traffic too, LOL! No apologies, sweetie. Now, if you don't mind, I think I'll go do the grocery shopping so I can cook a nice spaghetti dinner for my wife so she'll have a relaxing meal when she gets home from work. How's that for reversing the stereotypical gender roles for you? I'm sure you'll still think I'm a patriarchical oppressor no matter what ...
Well said as well Miss, but you need to loosen up on the whole "objectification" thing. I think we can all agree that women are objects, what's important is making sure that the hottest ones end up in blog posts.
Opus #6: Burn!
And blanket partisan criticism of the Right right back atcha, Dennis. Always good to hear from an intellectual.
JBW
Thanks, though I did wonder why your first comment managed to make this about you.
It must be awfully tiring to playing the angry victim all the time, Miss Ogny. Hell, it's tiring just listening to you.
I like Miss Olga over Miss Ogny though. It goes better with your photo.
Nice legs, by the way.
Haven't you heard, Dennis? I'm a leftist, nihilist self-worshipping god-hater; everything's about me. Plus while entertaining, this little spat isn't that interesting. I've gathered enough about Don at this point to know what kind of guy he is and from what little I've read of her stuff Miss sounds like a lot of other feminist chicks I've known: he's not as chauvinistic as she says and she's not as radical as he says but they're both entertaining caricatures of their respective ideologies. Done, now make with some more babe blogging, Don.
JBW: "Well said as well Miss, but you need to loosen up on the whole "objectification" thing. I think we can all agree that women are objects, what's important is making sure that the hottest ones end up in blog posts."
Yeah, she needs to really loosen up on the whole "objectification" thing. MEANWHILE, let's objectify women!
That WAS a joke.. Right?
"That WAS a joke.. Right?"
That depends, Anon: if you're laughing, it's a joke; if you're pissed off, I was totally serious.
If you're a chick, what are you wearing? If you're a guy, never mind.
Miss Agony, you should definitely check out Camille Paglia's column in today's NYT (the one that just so happens I blogged on earlier today). Seems Camille is vaguely decrying the net results of of modern feminaziism; noticing (for the first time?) the 'neutering of the American male' that comes from years of culture war with various unadulterated man-hating feminists (of Camille's sort).
No, Camille doesn't yet recognize or admit to the culture war as an obvious reason as to why she and her sisters need female Viagras, but you'll see she does recognize that something's amiss, agonizingly, and maybe a little blue femistudpill might just fix things up. For her.
Well, not for her, personally. Oh, unless JBW owes some sort of lefty obligation to a do a good deed and favor for a fellow traveler. In which case, hat's off, dude.
it's so sad when dumb white men actually buy the belief that they have achieved something simply by the crapshoot of their genetics. learn to spell, don, honey. and get some original ideas. you're boring and need some material of your own, that's not stolen from zombie reagan.
ps, pro-life is a bullshit term. where do you stand on capital punishment and supporting those babies that women can't afford but they must be forced to bear in your ideal world?
Anon: Maybe I'm a dumb bad speller, but I'm not "white."
P.S. Anonymous comments are generally not welcome. Start a blog and go public if you want to hang around here.
Did I read that incorrectly or did Serr8d just ask me if I'm going to lay Camille Paglia? Dude. I wouldn't bone her with your blog. Feminazis are quite possibly my least favorite wing of the political left in this country; I find them only slightly less annoying than real Nazis.
"Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to support female candidates simply because they're female."
Funny, back in 2008 there were feminists saying that if people who didn't support Hillary for president were doing so for sexist reasons. Just like others said that if we didn't support Obama it was because we were anti-black. The Hillary partisans sure were annoyed when their sexist demagoguery lost to Obama's racist demagoguery.
"No one has ever said, 'You can't be conservative and be a feminist'."
False. Lots have said it.
You can't be a feminist and want to criminalize abortion"
So, you can't be a feminist and believe that a fetus is a human being entitled to protection of the law? Feminism means the right to treat that fetus as a nuisance to be disposed of if inconvenient? Glad you cleared that up. :-P
"The only thing I want is gender equality. Radical, huh?"
Liar. You also say you want no legal restriction on abortions, you despise those who oppose the vast welfare system and who oppose socialized medicine, etc.
"I fully support the idea that men and women can be adamantly against abortion in their personal lives..."
Let's change just a few words:
"I fully support the idea that men and women can be adamantly against slavery in their personal lives and be lovers of freedom. However, you cannot impose your moral and/or religious views on an intensely debated philosophical question on other people."
Remember: Jefferson Davis fought for a white man's right to choose.
Miss O --
I adore your blog and read it everyday. Don't ever stop posting, please. You give a voice to those who don't speak their opinions, and you help countless others realize the power they truly have.
As a long-time follower of Miss O's blog, I can honestly say she is not pandering to one group of people or one sex. She defends both sides as well as a multitude of other topics. No, she is not clueless. No, she does not support infantide. She believes women have the right to choose. There's a difference.
Miss O, never change!!!!
Actually, most pro-life persons are supporters of choice, especially 'free choice'. What we do prefer is that choice be exercised at the appropriate time, as opposed to when cosmetic or lifestyle reasons become imperative.
Megs: how much do you charge for such effusive prolixity?
Cheers
"Strip it of its lame humour and we are left with gender studies Stalinism; feminism is the radical idea that women are people - with political views identical to my own."
--posted yesterday on David Thompson's blog.
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