STATEMENT FROM THE EDWARDS FAMILYShe is the author of two books: Saving Graces: Finding Solace and Strength from Friends and Strangers, and Resilience: Reflections on the Burdens and Gifts of Facing Life's Adversities. Having not read them, I can't say what it is --- spiritual or otherwise --- that animates her sense of grace, but it's not God. As noted at American Prospect in 2007, "The Original Theology of Elizabeth Edwards":
Elizabeth has been advised by her doctors that further treatment of her cancer would be unproductive. She is resting at home with family and friends and has posted this message to friends on her Facebook page.
You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces—my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope. These graces have carried me through difficult times and they have brought more joy to the good times than I ever could have imagined. The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered. We know that. And, yes, there are certainly times when we aren’t able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It’s called being human. But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful. It isn’t possible to put into words the love and gratitude I feel to everyone who has and continues to support and inspire me every day. To you I simply say: you know.
With love,
Elizabeth
I spent the weekend in Chicago, on behalf of the National Women's Editorial Forum, at a nonpartisan conference called BlogHer. There, Elizabeth Edwards took questions from an audience of women who blog ....Every question asked of her seemed to be answered in an unusually open manner, especially when the topic of religion came up. Asked by Beth Corbin of Americans United for Separation of Church and State to explain how her faith beliefs inform her politics, Elizabeth Edwards gave an extraordinarily radical answer: She doesn't believe in salvation, at least not in the standard Christian understanding of it, and she said as much:
I have, I think, somewhat of an odd version of God. I do not have an intervening God. I don't think I can pray to him -- or her -- to cure me of cancer.After the words "or her," Mrs. Edwards gave a little laugh, indicating she knew she had waded into water perhaps a bit deeper than the audience had anticipated. Then she continued:
I appreciate other people's prayers for that [a cure for her cancer], but I believe that we are given a set of guidelines, and that we are obligated to live our lives with a view to those guidelines. And I don't that believe we should live our lives that way for some promise of eternal life, but because that's what's right. We should do those things because that's what's right.Wow, I thought. That sounds awfully like, "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try..." What's Jim Wallis gonna make of that? Haven't the campaign communications consultants schooled her in how to talk the God-talk?
This is interesting.
Clearly Elizabeth Edwards wants to put her faith in something, be it hope or strength or anything. But not God. I wonder if it's just bitterness, that she's been forsaken by more than just her estranged husband --- that she's been forsaken by Him. And imagine if she'd have become First Lady. Americans generally expect outward expressions of faith in our presidents, Christian faith especially, and thus in our First Ladies as well. The Democratic base obviously doesn't care, as we can see in the "wow factor" expressed by the author at the American Prospect. Being anti-religion is cool, so Edwards' non-theological theology gets props from the neo-communists. Still, at her death bed and giving what most folks are calling a final goodbye, Elizabeth Edwards couldn't find it somewhere down deep to ask for His blessings as she prepares for the hereafter? I guess that nihilism I've been discussing reaches up higher into the hard-left precincts than I thought.
131 comments:
Thanks for commenting, Philippe!
What would Jesus do?
Attack a dying woman, that's what!
God has a nice warm spot in Hell reserved just for you.
Donald, Altough, I am a Christian, I truely feel sorry for those who have an opportunity to accept my God, but choose not to; it leaves me sad also, because they have chosen not to live forever and at the end of this life choose to end it for eternity,,,,does this make sense,,, I know what I want to say and hope I've conveyed what I feel....stay well....
I don't think this is an example of nihilism. It seems more like the Stoicism practiced by the ancient Romans, like Marcus Aurelius, an honorable, if grim, philosophy.
She is dying jackass.
You, Donald, are scum.
You have redefined the meaning of low blow.
"I have, I think, somewhat of an odd version of God. I do not have an intervening God. I don't think I can pray to him -- or her -- to cure me of cancer."
Well, I think those words are pretty sad, if she really believes it.
If we didn't have an intervening God, I think this country would have been wiped off the map by now.
I don't know where her faith lies, but I believe that one can believe in God, that He exists, but still try to achieve everything on their own, thereby rejecting what He offers.
To me, that's the saddest thing.
I don't believe that the professor was trying to be mean to a dying woman, either--if expressing an opinion that offends somebody will send anyone to hell, then I think that it will not be large enough to contain them all.
I feel sorry for the poor woman, and for her family. It is never easy to lose someone you love.
I think we all understand that.
Until you are on a deathbed yourself, you have no idea what Elizabeth Edwards is thinking right now, or what path she is currently walking. It's a path you haven't walked and if you're lucky, will never have to.
Nor do you have a clue about what happened in her marriage.
For a supposed Christian, you are very judgmental. Sorry, but the Jesus I've read about in the New Testament would have responded a lot differently to her. He would have approached her with the utmost compassion.
I am increasingly amazed at the reading and comprehension abilities of the Left or should I say lack thereof. Most of the Left is so emotion driven that no matter what is stated or written they change it to mean something other than what it was meant to be. Some of it is so much of a stretch that one might believe ludicrous is an understatement.
It may be more of a belief in Deism as a fact than a disbelief.
To anonymous, What do you think Jesus would have said? I spend time with people on death beds and would like to represent Jesus when speaking to them. So, how do you think Jesus would respond to someone who is about to meet Him one second after they take their last breath?
Todd
Mr. Douglas, you are a modern day Pharisee. What would Jesus do? I hope he would punch you square in the 'nads.
You are emotionally retarded.
Poor oppressed christians! So insecure in their faith that they get their panties in a wad everytime their god doesn't get props. Didn't Jesus say something about praying discreetly and not making a big show of it? Or is that another teaching of his you choose to ignore?
Wait a minute? Are you telling me a long suffering woman expressed beliefs perhaps contrary to your own?! AND THIS WHOLE TIME SHE COULD HAVE BEEN PRAYING TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE MAN THAN YOU! CAN YOU IMAGINE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS IF SHE WAS FIRST LADY!?!? WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?
Whoa way to "church lady" a dying women with some good old fashioned armchair quarterbacking.
Show some dignity, walk it back and delete this nonsense.
It is astounding how many of you commenting have met, talked to, and received personal guidance from your God. So delusional. So dangerous.
It's easy to judge, isn't it? Having lost a child in a tragic accident, been through several bouts of cancer and rounds of treatments, and been cheated on and humiliated by a husband in a very public affair, I think Elizabeth Edwards is entitled to question her faith. Didn't Job even regret his own birth? Mother Theresa, seeing the many thousand children starving and without shelter, questioned the existence of an intervening God.
I believe in a merciful and just God, one who will not condemn those whose faith has been shattered through a lifetime of hardship and tragedy.
A woman is dying and you sit in judgment of what she should say? Are you God? Get a life. Have some dignity and let her, or any other person, have their own moment(s) to reflect on what "it" means to them. As a person of faith I am always amazed by the hypocrisy of our community. Rest assured, I KNOW that God will welcome her weary soul into his open & loving arms. Her relationship to God is her own - you'd do well to learn something from it. You are not her judge.
Ghoul.
The only thing that shocks me about this post is that you care what Elizabeth Edwards believes. Whether you like her positions on policies or not, why would you care what she believes in re: the hereinafter? And why would you waste time discussing it?
A typical blind, cruel, tone-deaf Christian point of view. If only the Christians would heed what their cloud-daddy is supposed to be teaching them, they would be much more tolerable (and nicer).
What a fine example of a Christian you are Donnie. In other words, a complete, heartless dick.
Donald,
I am very impressed at your ability to attack a dying woman without, as near as can be told, blushing.
Congratulations.
Excellent job, Donald! If people see Christians behaving in a compassionate, tolerant, loving, way, it could totally screw up my plans for world dominion. I applaud you for demonstrating to non-Christians that followers of Christ are smarmy, self-righteous jerks, thus making it less likely that they'll explore more about that particular faith. Well, done, my good and faithful servant!
The Devil
So you feel that she is wrong for not giving thanks to the Supreme Being who either gave her cancer or allowed her to get cancer? Really?
I read stupid stuff all day long, because I work for the government, but this piece of excrement is today's topper.
I'm assuming that you don't teach religion, logic, or philosophy, Mr. Douglas?
In my whole life, I don't think I've ever read something like this. Unlike the author, it usually doesn't occur to people to judge anyone's end of life statements. Or *worse*, to obtusely politicize them. I think that's a whole new low in attracting blog traffic.
Mr. Douglas, you have not read Ms. Edwards' books. Why did you choose to comment on them now? Because she is in the news and you wish to capitalize on that. As she lay dying, you're throwing stones at things you don't even understand.
Merry Christmas, eh? Real nice.
It's an outrage -- an outrage, I say! -- that there are Americans who don't have the same beliefs about God that you have.
I couldn't have been more displeased by the way you attacked Mrs. Edwards' faith in this article. Truly disgusting. Here, we have a truly resilient and un-embittered woman who has come to terms with her lot in life and you suggest she is bitter and nihilistic? Shame on you.
A few years ago she was interviewed by Jonathan Alter regarding the death of her son Wade and her cancer diagnosis. She said this:
"Jonathan Alter: You've kept God out of the public discussion of your situation. Why?
Elizabeth Edwards: I had to think about a God who would not save my son. Wade was—and I have lots of evidence; it's not just his mother saying it—a gentle and good boy. He reached out to people who were misfits and outcasts all the time. He could not stand for people to say nasty things about other people; he just didn't want it. For a 16-year-old boy, he was really extraordinary in this regard. I wish I could take credit for it, but I can't. You'd think that if God was going to protect somebody, he'd protect that boy. But not only did he not protect him, the wind blew him from the road. The hand of God blew him from the road. So I had to think, "What kind of God do I have that doesn't intervene—in fact, may even participate—in the death of this good boy?" I talk about it in the book, that I had to accept that my God was a God who promised enlightenment and salvation. And that's all. Didn't promise us protection. I've had to come to grips with a God that fits my own experience, which is, my God could not be offering protection and not have protected my boy.
J.A.: You didn't lose your faith, you changed your faith? Or did you lose it for a time?
E.E.: I'm not praying for God to save me from cancer. I'm not. God will enlighten me when the time comes. And if I've done the right thing, I will be enlightened. And if I believe, I'll be saved. And that's all he promises me. "
I'm sick of falsely pious men who publicize their faith and fail to extend their reverence to the good people on this Earth. And here you are casting stones, proclaiming what YOU would have said in her situation. Go ahead, make your judgments. That's awfully Christian of you, isn't it?
And I'm also disgusted with your insinuation that atheists are nihilistic. I'm an atheist. I spent MY Sunday volunteering for the Orange County Child Abuse Prevention Center, even though I was sick with pneumonia. What did you do?
Oh dear me she didn't give the obligatory shout out to Mr. God...whatever shall we do. My goodness you don't want to upset him. He's like Cheney only older.
I couldn't have been more displeased by the way you attacked Mrs. Edwards' faith in this article. Truly disgusting. Here, we have a truly resilient and un-embittered woman who has come to terms with her lot in life and you suggest she is bitter and nihilistic? Shame on you.
A few years ago she was interviewed by Jonathan Alter regarding the death of her son Wade and her cancer diagnosis. You can find out all you want to know about how she feels regarding God in that interview:
http://www.newsweek.com/2007/04/08/i-m-not-praying-for-god-to-save-me.html
I'm sick of falsely pious men who publicize their faith and fail to extend their reverence to the good people on this Earth. And here you are casting stones, proclaiming what YOU would have said in her situation. Go ahead, make your judgments. That's awfully Christian of you, isn't it?
And I'm also disgusted with your insinuation that atheists are nihilistic. I'm an atheist. I spent MY Sunday volunteering for the Orange County Child Abuse Prevention Center, even though I was sick with pneumonia. What did you do?
Well, you'll soon be comforted when she's dead. Maybe you can then write a post about how she's burning in the hell God has created in his infinite love.
A non-intervening god. So, she's a Deist, just like a large number of the founding fathers.
You should be ashamed of yourself. She has been through more pain and suffering than most people experience in their lives. And because she has the audacity to question how God interacts with us...if He interacts with us...your choice is to slam her. That's some fine Christian charity you have there...
Walk a mile in her worn-out shoes and then see if you are so damned righteous.
you sir, are an abomination to "God" if he exists. He is surely shaking his head in dismay if you are the best the Christian faith can offer. I almost feel more sorry for you than for Mrs. Edwards. It must be horrific to live such a twisted, souless existence. She has in excess, what you lack completely: class.
In the immortal words of that other God-fearing chistian, "Go fuck yourself"
If I ever doubt my decision to leave the church, I only need return to this blog and re-read this post.
Not since internet muckraker Catherine Fitzpatrick bullied an AIDS patient on his deathbed - and then phoned up the funeral home to make certain he was dead - and *then* blogged about it - have I seen such an act of blatant callousness and hatred.
Your god must be so proud of you.
Judgmental much? Neo-communist because someone doesn't agree with your interpretation of the world? Good luck with that.
If I didn't know otherwise, I might have assumed that this post came right out of The Onion. But, alas, Donald is apparently serious here. As a practicing Christian, who believes in the traditional tenets of the faith, I can only say that the author has truly missed the whole point of faith in God. This is, ironically, a casebook example of something that Jesus would NOT have done. Someone needs to get back to basics, methinks.
God Bless Elizabeth Edwards for her faith in friends, family, and hope. For that is where God resides in our lives and hereafter.
Sad that the author took this as an opportunity for an unseemly and inappropriate pot shot at the "hard precincts of the left."
No wonder the "hard right" has the vile reputation it has richly earned. This certainly makes the case quite starkly.
Elizabeth Edwards writes: I believe that we are given a set of guidelines, and that we are obligated to live our lives with a view to those guidelines. And I don't believe we should live our lives that way for some promise of eternal life, but because that's what's right. We should do those things because that's what's right.
You follow this Donald with your own characterization of her faith as radical, anti-religious, communist, nihilist, etc.
It's a sad faith indeed that is so fragile, so poorly grasped, that its strength must depend on it being held by everyone else, as you insist that your own faith be.
You could learn a lot from Elizabeth Edwards about grace, Donald-- in fact I think you could learn a lot about grace from just about anyone else on the planet at this point, because your post makes clear that you are the most graceless of us all.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
You are just what I expect to see in American Christianity today: vile, heartless, holier-than-thou scum.
what Elizabeth needs now more than anything else is GOD. The bible is truth and very clear that No one will enter Heaven without trusting Jesus and be saved. Whether you like it or not one day you will realise that this is the Total truth and thats it. She needs God because after this life there is another life either in hell or heaven. If I were her I would use this time to prepare myself for the eternal life and accept Jesus as my saviour. What if she refuses and finds that that was the only way? I would rather believe and find that it is not true tbecause I loose nothing by believing in God than not believe and suffer eternally. My good advice to my dear sister is to accept Jesus as a saviour and he will save her soul, before it is too late.
Let's just be thankful that we don't live in a Muslim country, where orthodoxy is enforced and even the lack of sufficient religious zeal is grounds for cruel harassment.
What is wrong with you? Are you mentally ill, or just a blithering idiot? It's really none of your business if Mrs. Edwards chooses to "praise God" or not. You really must be the stupidest person on the Internet, but you have got some great competition. This post is shameful, and if you have any decency, you will retract it. I am not holding my breath waiting for that to happen. Have a nice day, twit. No, you can't have my name, and no, I don't really care if you publish this comment or not. Just wanted you to know how I felt, you unfeeling turd.
This is one of those times where you wish there was an intervening god so Elizabeth Edwards could ask her to smack the shit out of this heartless bastard with a well aimed lightning bolt.
This is the first time I have read your blog, Mr. Douglas, but I'm already finding it a fount of amazing information! For example: in order to feel more self-important and reinforce my beliefs, I can always kick a dying person! Great idea.
It's okay. God never credited Nietzsche, either.
spell check before you post.
that's she's been forsaken by more than just her estranged husband --- that's she's been forsaken by Him
lol wut?
Elizabeth Edwards has died.
Proud of yourself?
Any further comment would be superfluous at this point - it has already been established that you're a spiteful creep - but I figured I'd pile on anyway.
Proud of himself?
Mr. Douglas is not responsible for her death.
I doubt that Mrs. Edwards would have been as vitriolic as some of you have been, here.
You're so quick to jump on anything that is said about a liberal, but some of the most hateful comments come from some of the liberals when anything happens to a conservative.
I remember reading comments such as they wish they would die of aids, or cancer--along with their children. How compassionate is that?
I am not a fan of Sarah Palin's, but I cringe to think what would be said about her in the same situation--not to mention what has already been said about her, and her children.
Where is all this hate coming from? What happened to empathy and compassion?
Even if you are offended by what someone has said, do you need to reply so harshly? Don't you put yourself on the same level as the one you are condemning by doing so?
I, sometimes, think that the mere mention of anything to do with God, stirs up such animosity that the demons must tremble.
Perhaps, therein, lies the problem.
May God comfort her grieving family, and friends.
this entry is just one, of several that i found, as i went in search of a collective opinion. initially, i read the original statement published on facebook - that [she] had been sustained by "three saving graces", and yes, that her strength was seemingly attributed to her family, friends,,, and her own [inner-strength].... HOWEVER... what i found to be most intriguing, is how this excerpt of her original statement, has been either conveniently omitted OR grossly rephrased, in the later publishments throughout the day. so i had to ask myself... "why?"
personally, i dont see this post as being an attack on elizabeth edwards at all, but rather, a testament to her strength, self-confidence, and determination to make the best of any situation, and futhermore, not to fall solely-dependent on anyone (deity or otherwise) other than herself.
i dont know this writer, nor do i follow his opinions (or observations) on a regular basis, so i am not privy to his generalized position. i think my having this non-biased position, enables me to have a neutral perspective. with that said, my "take" is simply this: elizabeth edwards seemed to be an incredibly self-empowered woman, for which she cant be discredited. i think that, in and of itself, will be her legacy.
Dear Donald:
Checked the book. No reservation in your name.
You might want to contact LucyFer.
God
Let me get this straight: you are unhappy that before she died Elizabeth Edwards did not release a statement in support of your supernatural beliefs. How incredibly selfish - and arrogant, of you. Perhaps she WAS a christian and followed Jesus' admonition to not pray in public but to do so in the privacy of her own home - in other words, not to make a public show of her religion as Jesus taught his followers to avoid this mistake.
I enjoy reading these comments.
My faith in god -- not so great; my faith in humanity -- restored greatly.
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Ghandi
Who cares what she put her faith in? She wasn't your mother, your sister, your wife. What business is it of yours? What right do you have to criticize her or anyone else who is going through what she just went through?
Trying to score points in the culture wars on the back of a dead woman who never did anything to you. You really are an odious little man, Donald.
Oh, and Sasquatch Israel!
The Wrath of Oliver Kahn
Elizabeth Edwards was a really cool person, and the universe just got a little colder and lonelier with her passing. May flights of angels sing her to her rest.
As far as you are concerned, Mr. Douglas, a particle accelerator is needed to drive a clue into your head. Book passage for Switzerland, soonest!
In the garden of Eden God gave man the right to have free will and when Adam disbobeyed Him and ate with his wife Eve from the forbidden tree death entered into the world not only physically, but spiritually and we as mankind were condemned to eternal damnation in Hell. However, God who is rich in mercy chose to send His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of the world so that whoever believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. Rom 5:8 says"For God demonstrated His love toward us while we yet sinners Christ died for us." I Peter says" God desires that all men come to repentance." God did not reject Elizabeth Edwards but instead she chose to reject Jesus Christ who came into the world to save all those who would confess with their mouth Jesus is Lord and belive in their heart that He was raised from the dead." Call Donald comment offensive, but this is what the bible says and in the end no matter what any of us think one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.
"three saving graces"
Ummmmm, perhaps that because she died - your God didn't "save" her.
"God did not reject Elizabeth Edwards but instead she chose to reject Jesus Christ"
Now, that's just Palin-level stupid.
Donald, I hope when you finally die, you do so surrounded by your loved ones, at peace with your life, honoured and respected by friends and enemies alike.
But if you don't quit being such an unmitigated jerk, it ain't likely.
"And I don't believe we should live our lives that way for some promise of eternal life, but because that's what's right. We should do those things because that's what's right."
It seems to me Elizabeth Edwards has a pretty good grip on faith: pay close attention to what God said, try to do what's right no matter what, and don't think about what's in it for you. Donald Douglas may fault her for not saying the "magic words," but I believe God is a more discerning judge than he. Though I can't really presume to know the mind of God, I can't help but think Elizabeth Edwards will make a favorable impression on the Almighty, even if she's not pious enough to suit Mr. Douglas.
Since I am,,a Merican christian i cannot actually use proper grammar and I always use run on sentences and then since i don't know how to use commas either, I am, always messing that up too. Romans 1:4. I specifically believe in the parts of the bible that pertain to people who aren't me because God hates people who are different, specially Jesus, who spoke English as the official language. I am incurious, dull, cruel, and armed.
I didn't even realize this article was critical in tone until the end. I was enjoying what seemed like a rightful endorsement of a logical and reasoned woman who came to her senses. She stopped believing in fairy tales and wasting "prayers" to a non-existent entity. You religious zealots are so incredibly dim-witted, gullible, and just plain stupid. You are a complete drag on society, and I mean that literally.
Matthew 6:
5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Stay classy, Donalde.
I can't beleive you would go so low as to pick on a dying woman becasue she didn't utter her last words like you think she should have. That's simply an evil thing to do.
You give Christians a bad name. You're a class-less butinski and I am glad your kind is dying out in America.
If you are a representative of "faith" then no wonder so many people don't have it. You should be ashamed of yourself ... and ask for God's forgiveness.
Donald, if you took even the slightest bit of time to look up the term "Deist," you'd find that Edwards did wholeheartedly believe in God. She just didn't think God intervened in mortal affairs.
But hey, thanks for spreading ignorance. You guys are good at that much.
Every time I think that "Christians" couldn't get more egregiously judgmental, closed-minded, arrogant, witless and cruel ... someone like you comes along, Donald, and lowers the bar yet again. I do believe there are Christians out there who actually do live their lives as Jesus preached, but they are shrouded by boorish loudmouths like you who insist that everyone must follow the exact same belief system. You sure ain't winning anyone over to your cause by attacking a dying, now dead woman.
What would Nancy Reagan's astrolers say about all this?
"Your Christians are so unlike your Christ". Gandhi
The biblegod is a lie. Abraham, Sarah and Hagar are nothing more than the Hindu dieties Brahma, Sarasvati and Chagar who were demoted to human status when their cult came to the middle east.
The Jesus story is based on several different characters. The name comes from the character in the Tosefta named Yeishu Ha-Notzri who is best known for setting a fire in Herod's temple in protest of the moneychangers operating there. The story of his betrayal is based on the story of Joseph the son of Jacob who was sold to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver by his brother Judah.
There never was a practice of crucifixion in the Roman Empire in spite of the accounts of it. Not a shred of evidence supports the idea. Sure there is an anklbone with a nail through it but the victim could have just as easily had his throat cut and his body hung from a wall somewhere. The crusifixion idea comes from various gods shown on the cross of the zodiac in art work.
Then we have the Egyptian Mysteries: Osiris was betrayed and murdered by his brother Seth and later resurrected. Horus was born of an emaculate conception.
http://www.youtube.com/user/theemptycross
In short xtianity and judaism are no different from any other religious scam.
It's amazing how many ways "Christ, what an asshole" can be interpreted and still be true.
I must have missed something. I can understand that in a theocracy, the guardians of the one true faith can step in to punish those who violate that faith's tenets or who seem to ignore the centrality of that faith to their lives. So, when did our country become a theocracy and Mr. Douglas a mullah? I'm sure that there are authentic Christians out there who, when confronted with others who don't believe as they do, still are able to muster enough grace, love, and compassion to show love, especially in that other person's time of trial. What I hear in this blog is not that, but rather a longing for the (self-)righteous power over others that only a theocracy can bestow. May we always be free of such a government! May you find peace and love in your belief in your God!
This is the most evil thing I have read in a very long time.
To correct the completely insane misconception of atheism or not-fundamentalist faith of any sort, I, for one, became an atheist when I was finally happy and was able to sit down and hash things out for myself, and realized that my happiness, and my prior sadness, were not personal, and that the universe did not revolve around me and my feelings, or anyone else's. It sounds like Elizabeth Edwards, who was nominally theist at least, understood the exact same thing.
Were I to believe, I would much rather believe in a deity who at least will view my woes just as impersonally as they view those of people who live their entire lives in poverty and suffering than in one who will grant my prayers while letting children starve. You don't believe in a God; you believe in a genie who gives you what you want, from a big-screen TV and a big house in this life to everlasting joy in the next life if you just say the right combination of magic words.
If there's a deity and that deity is of the omnipotent-genie sort, it is evil, and I will happily burn in Hell before ever paying any kind of homage to Him.
I think that atheism and deism and other, similar systems are morally superior to your vile brand of faith precisely because of this dilemma of theodicy, but I know theists who do believe in a personal God who would never, ever say or think anything remotely as evil as what you just did.
In life we have a choice, love or fear. Jesus would choose love. Elizabeth Edwards chose love at a time most of us mortals would have chosen fear. She exhibited grace, compassion and dignity as she faced the end of her life. She chose to live each day to the fullest with love, as Jesus so instructs. She chose to be a positive voice among the chaos that radiates through out our daily lives. Unfortunately, not only is Donald ignorant, and lacking in godly compassion but he also chooses fear. A judgmental fear that can not see that there is life and love outside of the very small box he has to live in to keep himself safe from thinking. The fear he chooses makes him spread hate, more fear and more judgment. What would Jesus think about that?
Donald, you are just the worst kind of asshole. I hope that when your God gives you ball cancer that some opinionated blogger decides to offhandedly belittle your entire existence for no other reason than their Google analytics. Actually, I hope I get to be that blogger.
Hey, maybe she didn't mention God because it's a fairy tale. She didn't mention Santa Claus or Zeus or Gremlins either.
How Christian of you. I wondered what kind of a loser would think this type of vile vapid inane twaddle would be appropriate and all I had to do was look at the nonsense you have on the side of the page. You are typical of what is wrong with this country, a holier than thou bigot mean spirited Christian and republican. Your type makes me sick.
Anthony, please don't wish harm on people. If we're going to seriously talk about the moral high ground of not pissing on people's graves, and of not gloating over the misfortune of others, then we absolutely cannot use that kind of rhetoric. When we do that, that makes the generally fatuous comments about vicious liberals with exploding heads appear much more plausible. You're a better person than that if you are that angered by this.
This is the sort of post that shows what right wingers really think of "political correctness." They hate it until someone fails to pay homage to Jesus in the proper form.
God isn't happy with you Donald, and she's going to light up your ass with a lightning bolt!
It really is amazing how your trying to 'cap' on a dying woman. Have you no honor, 'sir'?
As a Christian, I'm failing to see how this column is anything but insensitive, hurtful and ill-timed. I suggest you actually go read the Gospels - I don't see Jesus writing a column like this.
God does nothing. Never has and never will.
what a fucking asshole
Perhaps this might be of interest to you and your concerns:
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/08/why-elizabeth-edwards-left-god-out-of-her-last-goodbye/
Let me get this straight. You're upset that a dying woman doesn't share your delusion? Pfft.
What creates atheists?
When kids hear stuff like this column, they decide they're atheists and never look back.
Is nothing free from your self-satisfied criticism? Not even the public expression of a dying woman who lived an exemplary life? Save your scorn for her hypocritical, Jesus-loving husband.
Most of us have ANY IDEA, what Elizabeth Edwards said in her last moments, with her family by her side, unless you were there, standing over her in the privacy of her home. What she posted was a goodbye message to all. One that people of many different religions, or who aren't religious could understand.
Whatever she said during her final breath is nobody's business. None of us were there at her death bed. Shame on you for taking a Facebook goodbye and turning it into Elizabeth's final words before she actually drew her last breath.
Only her most cherished friends, and family could possibly know. Not the words she posted on some social networking site.
How many of you have had recurrent cancer, or struggled through the death of a son, and a husband whom you were so devoted to, who turns his back on you when you needed him the most. No, her God would not do this. This is appauling, and sad...
None of us hasANY IDEA, what Elizabeth Edwards said in her last moments, with her family by her side, unless you were there, standing over her in the privacy of her home right before she passed away. That is all you know. What she posted was a goodbye message to all. One that people of many religions, or who aren't religious could understand.
Whatever her last words were are nobody's business. None of us were there at her death bed. Shame on you for taking a Facebook goodbye and turning it into Elizabeth's final words before she actually drew her last breath. Only her most cherished friends, and family could possibly know. Not the words she posted on some social networking site.
How many of you have had recurrent cancer, or struggled through the death of a son, and a husband whom you were so devoted to, turn his back on you when you needed him the most. God bless her, and keep her. This post is appauling, and very sad...
get over yourself. im sorry elizabeth edwards didnt prove her christian faith to you in her facebook message. it's facebook. since when does she need to share with your her intimate relationship with God...find something else to waste you time on. but im sure you wont. im sure you'll take any criticism you get here as some type of defense of godlessness and non-belief...what a waste of what could be a productive space.
nikki said...
get over yourself. im sorry elizabeth edwards didnt prove her christian faith to you in her facebook message. it's facebook. since when does she need to share with your her intimate relationship with God...find something else to waste you time on. but im sure you wont. im sure you'll take any criticism you get here as some type of defense of godlessness and non-belief...what a waste of what could be a productive space.
___________
That was my point. Read much? comprhend much? Nobody knows what her final words were except what she posted on FB. She was given only a couple of weeks to live after that post from what I read. Instead she died the next day. She sounded to me like she had deep faith in God as she understood him/her. Speaking ill of the dead is real white, and Christian of you. Judging someone you, nor I, know nothing about during her final hours. I don't understand such ugly words coming from you Niki. One who professes to be a follower of Jesus Christ.
Dear Mr. Douglas, I am really wondering what Jesus would say about your attitude- I find it without grace or hope and certainly it is not kind, compassionate or friendly - the essence of Jesus's teachings -
If Heaven is full of right-wing christen fundamentalists then no decent, kind person would want to be there. All right wingers are mean, nasty and creepy.
Let me say that I first read about this "conversation" on F/B. I decided to have a "look/see" for myself. While I agree that Mr Douglass is less than charitable in his comments about the Late MS Edwards, most of the comments from many who claim the Name of Christ are equally full vitriol. I feel that each one should take a minute and simply pray the Jesus Prayer--"Lord Jesus have mercy on me a Sinner" or another version of the same; Lord Jesus Christ make haste to save me, I am a sinner."
I would hope, indeed, expect some "Christ-like-ness" in this dialogue. Really folks (Dare I call you Christians) This makes me feel like I need a shower. Matter-of-fact that is just what I am going to do, wash my mind and soul clean of your hate.
Elizabeth Edwards is entitled in her final statement to say whatever is in her heart, and if this doesn't include a reference to a Christian God, so be it. To pass judgement on her in such a personal choice is.....well, it just isn't Christian.
Really? Talking snakes? Burning bushes that talk? Resurrection? Spare us all the superstitious mumbo-jumbo.
Where do you find evidence of all the supernatural activity you apparently depend upon?
You know, Mr. Douglas, a very good friend of mine alerted our mutual friends, my readers and me to your article. David is a kind man who has a difficult time expressing harshness, even when engaging the iniquitous and the insidious. I was, therefore, taken-back when, in his commentary, he used the word "HATE" in referring to the viceral feeling that your article had begun to evoke in him. I immediately came to see what had inspired such an "out of character" reaction from this staunch but gentle American. Now I know.
You see, Mr. Douglas, your myopic and misguided perspective suggests that the "exceptional" should look to the "perverse" in pursuit of exaltation for their "immortal souls." Actually, Donald, it's the other way around.
The god of the THOUSAND YEARS of European Inquisition, of Waco, Texas and of The Salem Witch Trials; the god of "jihad" and of burning crosses and of hooded night-riders; the god that allowed The Holocaust and Darfur and that fed the narcissism of Reverends Jim Baker and Jim Jones; the god that unleashed the perversion of 10,000 pedophile priests and of the Institutions that fed them our children; the god of the Pope that, at one time, sanctioned their rape and that, in doing so, managed to strip many of us of the comfort that one should find in the words “In God We Trust"...; THAT god, at the time of Elizabeth Edward's languishing and at the time of her "essence" escaping her body, didn't need for Elizabeth to mention her having FAITH in him.
You see, Donald, at that very moment, THAT god, his pidgeon and the kid he left to get "nailed to a tree" were themselves, making mention of their own faith...IN ELIZABETH.
GET IT RIGHT!
It sounds like Elizabeth Edwards was a Deist. The only two requirements of being a Deist are: belief in God based on the application of your God-given reason on the designs in the Universe and in Nature; rejection of all claims that go against your God-given reason such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam and all the "revealed" religions.
Progress! Bob Johnson
http://www.deism.com
This discussion is a grotesque
mirror of our culture.
The vulgar disregard for her children speaks volumes about the people who have 'faith in god'.
The banality, platitudes and cruelty of the comments reflect who and what we are.
Luckily, this infantile persecution complex fueled attack on a dead woman will be available as long as some server somewhere has space that's not required for more important files like a custom 404 error page or maybe an LOL cat.
It's constantly surprising to me that despite the plethora of pious hateful jackasses like Douglas, people are surprised at strident criticisms of religion and the religious.
Mr. Douglas, why are you so intolerant? It seem you are possessed with more fear than faith, needing to arrogantly display you disagreements with how God made the universe by tearing down others, even in death. How Christian is that? What did God do to you that was so bad that you would doubt and second guess his creations so viciously? Do you still have enough faith in God left to allow this comment to post or have you given up on Him?
if all your fath leaves you so insensitive and unjudgemental, I want nothing of your God
You should really shut the hell up if all you can do is write crap like this. God is love anmd compassion and you showed none. What an ass
Donald, you have set a poor example of Christianity with this post and by sticking your nose into a dying woman's last public statement, written when she was without hope of living much longer and about to leave the children she so wanted to live to see grow up and to help grow up. Your blog was bad form.
From Scripture: But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." Remember this? So-called Christians like you violate it left and right in your "practice" of the faith, causing people to turn from God with your bad example. When someone asks if I'm a Christian, I want to be clear in my response that I'm not this kind of heartless, self-righteous, preying Christian. I keep trying to find a better word to describe myself as a follower of Christ. The word Christian has been tainted, possibly beyond redemption (isn't that ironic?). The Ghandi quote is correct.
After the tragedies of her life, Elizabeth Edwards had what I suspect was a more mature and honest faith than many, a faith that was developed under fire. A surface faith like many Christians practice would fall apart if tested as hers was tested.
Diana in BGKY
To the original poster, Phillipe. you should look into who this is before you post so you can see just how disgusting and sick Donal Douglas is.
This is hatred at it worst, a be sure to know that in no way shape or form, is this man Christian.
Incredibly disturbing.
I am a Christian and your comments about a dying woman show you to be a piece of crap.
That someone would take the opportunity of a death announcement to read their own egotistical self-serving political interpretation into it in the name of Christian faith is loathsome and worthy of nothing more than contempt.
And make no mistake, your rabbit-punching at the departed is a nothing more than an attempt at a partisan political rallying cry.
It's become all too common for people to broadcast their phoniness in this society. But I've rarely seen it done so unctuously.
Donald, you are an evil, heartless person too caught up in your own vanity to accept another person's last words at face value.
So,failing to have something substantive to offer for discussion/debate in an intelligent manner,you take the lazy way out & latch on to a topic guaranteed to stir up hits on your blog,which I suspect, was your real goal in the first place and which serves as validation for your public presence. Having said that, I have to admit your meanspirited diatribe drew me into the conversation as well, so you have succeeded where no other 'blog blatherer has.
I've never having visited here before, so just to be fair, let me get this straight; you chose to villify a dying woman for,of all things,not conforming to your own idea,(genuinely held or not),and those of folks you pander to,of what a dying person should have to say?
Who are you, and for that matter, any of us to offer critiques, esp. those couched in thinly veiled hypocritical phrases such as "I feel sorry for her.."?
As someone mentioned earlier, the term "Pharisee" comes to mind.
As fellow human beings,esp. those identifying themselves as Christians, why can't we just celebrate the life of a person who endured multiple personal tragedies and disasters,any one of which would devastate most of us, with such exemplary dignity & grace?
I am proud to be a Christian, a regular church attendee, and draw strength for daily life & its trials through the my Heavenly Father, the Holy Scriptures and regular church attendance. I only mention that fact so as not to be regarded as someone speaking from a "non believer's" point of view.
Your article however, does have some value; it brings to mind a Biblical passage all of us,espcially we Christians, would do well to remember, "Judge not, lest ye be judged.."
Steve
I only have one question for all the so-called Christians of good faith, who think she should have payed to God to be cured (or for salvation): How many of you would recommend that a person who has cancer pray to god to be cured. Now, how many of you would also recommend that a amputee pray that his lost leg grow back?
Please be so kind as to know what nihilism is before you slap a label on someone's statement to push your own hate-filled agenda. Her statements are neither nihilist, nor fodder for your petty political trolling. Neoconservatives wonder why so many members of the "mainstream media" have a problem with their views. Your reprehensible attacks on a dying woman because of your different political ideals is exhibit one. If you can't have respect for the courage of a dying woman, I'm not sure what you think Christian compassion is supposed to be.
How DARE you speak of Elizabeth Edwards like this. You all get offended when someone disses your religion ... YOUR religion ... not EVERYONE'S religion ... and then you DARE to challenge someone else's beliefs at the time of their death.
Shame on all of you! You make me sick!
Not everyone wants to die and leave behind a bullshit statement. Thank you Ms. Edwards for being honest and not following these brainwashed zombies.
Consequences will never be the same.
I agree with what Jimmy Homer said
"In the garden of Eden God gave man the right to have free will and when Adam disbobeyed Him and ate with his wife Eve from the forbidden tree death entered into the world not only physically, but spiritually and we as mankind were condemned to eternal damnation in Hell. However, God who is rich in mercy chose to send His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of the world so that whoever believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. Rom 5:8 says"For God demonstrated His love toward us while we yet sinners Christ died for us." I Peter says" God desires that all men come to repentance." God did not reject Elizabeth Edwards but instead she chose to reject Jesus Christ who came into the world to save all those who would confess with their mouth Jesus is Lord and belive in their heart that He was raised from the dead." Call Donald comment offensive, but this is what the bible says and in the end no matter what any of us think one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father."
Jesus loves us so much that He laid down His life for our sins. As Christians we want people to accept Christ so they can live with Him for eternity. To all those who have said mean things and profanities, God still loves you and you still have a chance as long as you continue to draw breath. Don't let the opportunity pass you by.
Your comments about Elizabeth Edwards make me really, REALLY glad my friends and I laughed during Ronald Reagan's funeral, that we made jokes about the casket being made of REAL mahogany, and we chortled about Reagan drooling, pooping and peeing on himself for two years before he died.
You just have a SWELL Christmas, you little Pharisee.
Thank you Mr Douglas. We should call it as it is. Elizabeth not believing in God doesn't make Him non-existent, except to her. You called it as you see it and I agree with you
"I guess that nihilism I've been discussing reaches up higher into the hard-left precincts than I thought."
And there's the payoff. A partisan swipe at liberals, made at the expense of a dying woman. Have you no shame, sir?
I can only hope you get cancer and get to experience what Elizabeth Edwards experienced. Asshole.
It's sad that the liberal left wants everyone except conservatives to have freedom of speech and an opinion. You can almost 'see' the contempt in their comments. sad.....
When did anyone try to censor conservatives? I hate to break it to you, but criticism doesn't constitute a violation of the object's First Amendment rights. If it did, then this post would be a violation of Elizabeth Edwards' rights, and your post would be a violation of the rights of liberals, and we should all just sit very still and try not to say anything to one another, lest someone's rights be violated.
No, the way of the world is that, when you say something this inhuman and evil, people will jump all over your head, and thank the Constitution for the rights of both the terrible poster and the angry commenters.
Donald Douglas, not believing in your imaginary sky fairy is not the same thing as "nihilism," you self-centered twat. I know it's difficult for you to comprehend, but people can live perfectly fulfilling lives without your peculiar delusions.
Elizabeth Edwards showed more digniity and self-honesty in the tradegies and ultimate death she faced than most of you sanctimonius Christians could ever muster. Unlike you, she did not appear to live in self-absorbed, narcissistic denial of physical reality.
You are living in an alternative universe. Do you not realize that people like you, along with your comments, attitudes and politics have done more to destroy religion, faith in God and Christianity in this country than any other single force throughout our young democracy. You reference nihilism. Perhaps you are thinking about another n-word: narcissism, because I can only surmise that you must suffer from something like this.
"Americans generally expect outward expressions of faith in our presidents, Christian faith especially, and thus in our First Ladies as well."
That may be true of some Americans, but it is not true of those who are prepared to protect and defend the Constitution.
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." United States Constitution, Article VI, paragraph 3.
Truly depraved.
Shame on you.
You do not know what was in the heart of Elizabeth Edwards, nor what her relationship to her Creator was or is. And shame on you for assuming that you do.
Donald Douglas is a contemptible political hack who can eat shit and die. He's as bad as the Phelps nuts.
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