Sunday, May 31, 2009

Andrew Sullivan: "Christianists" Killed George Tiller - UPDATED!!

George Tiller, the Wichita, Kansas, abortion doctor, was shot dead today while on his way to attend church services.

The controversy over Tiller's late-term abortion activities drew heavy fire from conservatives.
His Wikipedia entry notes that Bill O'Reilly alleged that "George Tiller performs late-term abortions to alleviate 'temporary depression' in the pregnant woman."

No one has been apprehended in the killing. KMBC 9 News - Kansas City reports "that police were looking for a blue Ford Taurus with a K-State vanity plate, license number 225 BAB. Police described him as a white male in his 50s or 60s, 6 feet 1 inch tall, 220 pounds, wearing a white shirt and dark pants."

But this information didn't stop Andrew Sullivan from convicting Bill O'Reilly and the "Christiantists" for the killing, "
O'Reilly's Target Shot Dead In Church":

My thoughts and prayers go out to the Tiller family.

But let me state unequivocally here: The death of George Tiller is a tragedy. His killers should be brought to justice and the death penalty should be on the table. But Andrew Sullivan is sick man to use this murder for political purposes. The blood of the killing's not even dry, and Sullivan's already smeared the entire conservative movement as a coalition of murderers. There will be more on the left to join him.
David Neiwert's probably writing a post at this moment. But have no doubts: The attacks here on O'Reilly as "Christianist" are tantamount to the attacks on Sarah Palin during the election last year. Andrew Sullivan slurred Palin as the "Christianist culture warrior in Wasilla, Alaska." But obviously Sullivan's allegations this morning are totally off the charts. Tiller's killing was a political assassination. The Christian Defense Coalition has already condemned the murder, and the group will hold a press conference tomorrow morning.

Sullivan's screed is a classic case study in how leftists operate. As demonstrated over and over since the election last year, the Democratic victory is fragile. Lefists will use any and all of
the most unhinged tactics to defend a political program of postmodern nihilism. On a day when Americans should be pulling together, we instead have leftists driving the wedge in deeper. Contemptible.

**********

UPDATE: Right on cue, here's Joan Walsh: "George Tiller is the latest victim of right-wing American terrorism against abortion providers and supporters."

Yep, as I said, Comments From Left Field pegs everyone on the right as murderers: "NOW do all the pearl-clutching conservative bloggers get why that fauxtroversial DHS report on far-right activity was so goddamn pertinent?! As GallingGalla just said on Twitter, “forced-birthers are TERRORISTS on US soil.”

Ta-Nehisi Coates jumps on Sullivan's bandwagon: "We don't have the luxury of thinking about these bilious hate-mongers as loonies running off the lip. People are dying. And these shameless goons are cashing checks. Disgusting. I'm sick over this.

**********

UPDATE II: Unbelievable! Leftists really do believe in "therapeutic" abortions! Here's Amanda "FUCK YOU" Marcotte: "Odds are pretty strong the murderer is a forced childbirth terrorist, out to kill the doctor who focused his practice on providing therapeutic abortions to women later in their pregnancy than most abortion providers can or will service."

Digby also highlights how "vital" are therapeutic abortions: Tiller "was one of only a handful of doctors who will perform this vital service for women under the new law. If you think that women should have to endanger their lives in order to give birth to a fetus with no brain, then you probably think this man was a murderer. For the women who went to him, and for whom he put up with a horrifying amount of harrassment and violence before they finally managed to kill him, he was a Godsend."

**********

UPDATE: III: A suspect is in police custody.

**********

UPDATE IV: This post now has a thread at Memeorandum.

Also blogging and linking, The Daley Gator, Gateway Pundit, The Other McCain, Pirate's Cove, Protein Wisdom, Right Wing News, Stop the ACLU, and Sundries Shack.

Be sure to read Robert George's post at The Corner, "Gravely Wicked":

Whoever murdered George Tiller has done a gravely wicked thing. The evil of this action is in no way diminished by the blood George Tiller had on his own hands. No private individual had the right to execute judgment against him.
Read Professor George's entire entry, here.

Andrew Sullivan pleads innocence in
an update:

I do not and did not blame O'Reilly for the murder. I think his rhetoric and demonization of an individual subject to violence and threats are excessive and dangerous. He has every First Amendment right to speak the words he has spoken and I am sure he never wanted this to happen. But you can debate these matters with a little less personal demonization and get your point across.
What a sanctimonious gasbag!

"A little less personal demonization"? That's precious coming from the
Queen of Trig Trutherism himself!

55 comments:

smitty1e said...

Sullivan deserves to be ignored.

Donald Douglas said...

I would ignore him, Smitty, but he's representative of the worst on the left, and he remains influential. If he's not rebutted, his lies gain traction.

Dave said...

So, if it turns out that Tiller's killer was really a burned-out atheist hippie vegen from Salinas, will it get reported by Sullivan and the rest of the MSM?

Don't hold your breath.

-Dave

Donald Douglas said...

It was likely a pro-life extremist, but as you note, Dave, it doesn't matter what the facts are. This event is being used for political purposes ...

Dave said...

Oops, itchy trigger finger there...

As for Sullivan, he is about the lowest form of journalistic life going, and his anti-Christian bigotry is well known.

Clearly, he is trying to pin this act on Christians and Christianity in general, without even waiting for the killer to be caught.

Not very professional of the creep.

-Dave

Len said...

Heh. Sullivan may have jumped too quickly in one direction, but it seems to me that you jumped just as quickly in the other. I don't think anybody knows yet who the murderer is. Whoever it is, I hope they get caught quickly.

Libby said...

this isn't the biggest 'news' in the world...yeah, he was hated by some, loved by others, but...people don't need to latch on to this for political opinions, just so they can feel justified in hating...

Dave C said...

Excitable Andi has dementia

Donald Douglas said...

No, Len, I don't doubt the killer is anti-abortion. This is what I say:

"But let me state unequivocably here: The death of George Tiller is a tragedy. His killers should be brought to justice and the death penalty should be on the table. But Andrew Sullivan is sick man to use this murder for political purposes. The blood of the killing's not even dry, and Sullivan's already smeared the entire conservative movement as a coalition of murderers."

Dave said...

Dr. D,

You are most likely correct in that a zealot carried out this crime, but ever since the Matthew Shepard incident, and others like it, I wouldn't put the MSM past making up a description to fit the person they want it to be.

Remember, according to the MSM and the left, Shepard was murdered by vicious homophobes only because he was gay, when in reality, it was just a garden variety robbery:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/04/30/abc-debunks-matthew-shepard-murder-no-hate-crime-msnbc-savages-republ

I have also noticed that truly horrendous crime stories tend to disappear from the media when it turns out the criminal involved was an illegal alien, or some other member of the left's precious protected classes.


-Dave

Donald Douglas said...

Dave: I've made my views clear. See how fast the leftists are taking political advantage of this tragedy?

JBW said...

Fact: Most acts of terrorism and violence against Americans are committed by crazy unhinged Muslims, yet most Muslims are good people.

Fact: Most acts of terrorism and violence against abortion doctors are committed by crazy unhinged Christians, yet most Christians are good people.

These are just facts. This guy and others who kill people in the name of God are "Christianists" just as those who kill people in the name of Allah are "Islamists".

Oh, and pure speculation: "burned-out atheist hippie vegans from Salinas" are too weak from lack of meat in their diet to commit acts of terrorism and violence against anyone.

But keep up the crazy, Dave. You're priceless.

Donald Douglas said...

JBW: This is not a fact: "This guy and others who kill people in the name of God are 'Christianists' just as those who kill people in the name of Allah are 'Islamists'."

Is Sarah Palin, a "Christianist", running around killing abortion doctors?

You're a freak. Go play with your friend Alex the Gay, big boy!

JBW said...

I didn't say all Christianists kill abortion doctors Don, merely that all abortion doctor killers are Christianists.

Let me restate this rhetorical concept at the community-college level: while all Republicans are not reality-impaired homophobes, all reality-impaired homophobes are Republicans.

And I'm a superfreak, actually. Your own gay fantasy life must be rich indeed, sweetheart.

Philippe Ohlund said...

Very interesting post indeed, Donald! :-)

I have had problems lately logging in to your comments - nothing happens when I click on "Comments" - but I don't know if this problem comes from my computer or from the Swedish border cyber control.

Anyway, keep up the good work, and have a wonderful day!!!

Dave said...

JBW,

If the person they now have in custody does not fit within the template the MSM has created, this story will quickly disappear from the front pages.

And if the guy is a Muslim (who, incidentally, don't tolerate abortions, period) or a confirmed lefty, and the story doesn't vanish altogether, it will at least take a sympathetic turn, just like the Unabomber story did.

The MSM was sooooo sure they had a "right-wing" nut job on their hands. As I recall, they could barely contain their glee over it. When it turned out Theodore Kaczynski was actually a lefty enviro-nut, the news coverage changed dramatically.

After all, the MSM has an agenda to promote, which in this case is anti-Christian bigotry. If this case does not aid them in that effort, they will quickly move on to other things.

And I am pretty sure before this news cycle expires, there will be no shortage of gun-grabbers fanning out to the talking head morning news shows to tell us all that this shooting is why we should be forced to surrender our 2nd Amendment rights to some degree or other.

-Dave

Serena said...

JBW said: "Let me restate this rhetorical concept at the community-college level: while all Republicans are not reality-impaired homophobes, all reality-impaired homophobes are Republicans.".

Oh, really? Well, I invite you to make a tour of certain areas of Pennsylvania where you will find many "reality-impaired homophobes" who are all registered Democrats. And no, they were not Republicans who crossed over to vote for Hillary. Neither are these folks "Christianists", whatever the heck that means. These are dyed in the wool, lifelong, Dems.

Not all Democrats are progressives.

I'm neither reality-impaired nor a homophobe but I am a Republican.

Rhymes With Right said...

I am morally opposed to killing abortionists.

I would never kill an abortionist because of my moral beliefs on the matter.

However, after many conversations with supporters of legal abortion, I have some serious reservations about imposing that moral value on whoever killed George Tiller.

Just call me PRO-CHOICE.

Anonymous said...

It's terrorism and it will continue I guess until someone shoots O'Reilly, Randall Terry, and Dobson in both arms,(1993 attack on Tiller) bombs their offices (1986), blockades their offices (1991), cuts the wires to their security systems, chops holes in their roofs and plugs up the drainage system, (last month) and finally walks into the vestibules of their respective churches while they're serving as ushers handing out church bulletins, with their wives upstairs singing in the choir, and shoots them to death, apparently in the face so that witnesses will have tell the police who the victims are.

Than maybe, just maybe, the kind of disgusting violent drumbeat against doctors who perform abortions by the likes of these goons will cease.

JBW said...

Serena, that statement was more a dig at Don and his homo-obsession than it was an unequivocal statement. I'm sure the reality-impaired homophobes of the world run the political gamut, but I would still wager that the majority of them vote Republican.

And I myself am neither reality-impaired nor a homophobe either, but I'm also not a Democrat.

Dave C, I'm sure you're the exception that proves the rule. And Schrute is hilarious.

Dave, people like you who think that the MSM has an anti-Christian bigotry agenda to promote crack me up. As I've said here many times, the MSM has one agenda above all others: to make money! They'll say and do whatever they have to to get you to watch their shows, and by extension, the commercials during and in between those shows.

And I wouldn't doubt it if some "gun-grabbers" make the media rounds after this incident. And do you know why the shows will have them on? To make money! Because they know you and I will tune in to watch the grabber verbally spar with a 2nd amendment defending gun nut.

I know you guys on the right aren't happy unless you feel like you're constantly being persecuted and plotted against (they're gonna steal our guns/fetuses/money/whatever) but reality is a lot simpler. Follow the money, yo.

But like I said, keep it up. You're great.

Dolores said...

One gets blood splatter just from visiting your blog.

Anonymous said...

Fascinating. A Right Wing terrorist in this country murders someone and the Right tires to spin it against 'leftists'.



The Right makes me thoroughly sick everyday.

And the Right is busy terrorizing everyday, but the Right Wing media won't report it.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=903

Mark Harvey said...

Just one more distraction in a long list of distractions.

While this murder is indeed an act of a demented moron, I find it curious that the Leftinistra will bemoan this "tragedy" yet will look the other way when the murders of the unborn is approved of.

Leftinistra double standards is one of the contributing factors into the demise of this nation.

Anonymous said...

This is the second shooting by Right Wing terrorists in a church.


Another Oklahoma City is not too far away. They did it before, you can bet the Right is planning to do it again.

They even tried to cover up the FBI investigation into Right Wing extremism.

The Right wants not only to destroy America and our freedom, but kill our people.


Look at the Right make excuses.

Mark Harvey said...

Just saw a news flash..."they" have a man in custody.

Anonymous said...

Donald says "But Andrew Sullivan is sick man to use this murder for political purposes."

Uh, so what's Update II about, Donald?

Physician, heal thyself.

Mats said...

Funny how ALL Christians are blamed for this, but when muslims world wide kill, rape, behead and honor-kill, lefties don't blame ALL of Islam.

JBW said...

Mats, only unthinking idiots blame ALL of a group of people for the actions of one or a few of them. Who's blaming ALL Christians for this, guy? Think before you type, it will save us all a lot time.

Anonymous said...

Good for Sullivan. Most conservatives are using Christ's words, but not practicing them. Hence, "Christinist". And in this case of domestic terrorism, maybe ORiley should be questioned. In Gitmo.

goethean said...

Mission Accomplished, so-called pro-lifers!

tapline said...

DD, Each human life is precious. To me,the taking of a human life is murder, The courts have spoken to this issue and are the culprits by inacting a law that has,in essence made fetuses non-persons. The law allows for the murder of late term unborn babies and the doctor was following the law no matter how vile it might seem to others....Change the law not kill those who follow it....It's that simple....

Anonymous said...

Why the angst?

Is anyone here really of a mind that but for this mass-murderer getting whacked, that the establishment would embrace the pro-life agenda, would embrace those that are pro-life as people with positions that aren't anti-social?

Cut the act.

This guy was performing "abortions" on kids that were viable.

These weren't "abortions," something which is tantamount to homicide, this guy was flat-out killing people, and raking in the proceeds all the way to the bank.

Now I wouldn't have whacked him, and I wouldn't have spent half a second thinking about whacking him, ------------ but I'm not about to go off and indulge in all kinds of fantasy about how this killing will impact the establishment, an establishment that is filled with venmon and hatred for all things Conservative, or normal.

This guy who got it was a real live piece of work.

And as for our laws, we're in a situation where laws reflect a lawlessness.

And in such situations no one should be shocked or surprised to see self-help going on.

Go read our Declaration of Independence, and read what are the duties of men in lawless situations, in the face of demonstrable, manifest evil.

Anyone who thinks that the founders would have gotten their drawers in a dander over a lawless mass-murderer getting whacked doesn't our founders. Our founders took up arms, as private citizens, and took on lawful authority.

They killed people, they kept on killing people, until the other side had had enough.

And every single one of them was a private citizen taking the situation into their own hands.

Rusty Walker said...

Calm down, good people! Anyone who decides he is the designated executioner over a debated moral issue of women who are trying to figure out their plight- this is not political. This is a criminal, this guy. This is a personal moral issue the woman has to figure out. No one wants an abortion, even if they end up doing it, it is a tough situation. The Republican right doesn’t encourage this by reporting on what they believe; O’Reilly doesn’t want this….stand down!…the leftist attack…stand down! Why all the venomous attacks? This is guy who thinks he can decide to kill someone is not a Christianist, a Christian, or anything else, he is a deeply disturbed murderer. Let’s debate, but, not wallow in the mud with this idiot. All this response is so much below the intelligent people that I see and read on this blog. JBW, you sound bright, how about not lowering yourself to attacking Donald, with the homophobe thing, it is beneath you. I hear you, and you are right not to blame a group for this, and we on the right I would hope not blame a one leftist for a similar brutal attack. Where is the high ground discussion on these issues? The whole argument gets more clear, doesn’t it, if we can debate these complex issues with dialectical logic? Or, is release of venom the point?

Dave C said...

I would like to apologize for the 'FACT' comment I left...

It was rattled off as a smart ass reply that shouldn't have happened.

This was not the time or the place for it..

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

The suspect, Scott Roeder, was jailed in the 1990s on explosives charges. He was apparently involved in the Montana Freeman movement, and describes himself as a "sovereign citizen" anti-tax activist, in addition to contributing to Operation Rescue message boards. If liberals wanted to create a caricature far-right militant domestic terrorist from scratch, Scott Roeder would fit the bill.

For the record, I abhor late-term abortions and find all abortions deeply morally troubling. But this sort of vigilante violence - in a church no less - is going to blow back against the right no matter what. Roeder is just too perfect of a political symbol - like McVeigh. He doesn't come across as a Jim Adkisson, the personally troubled nutjob who murdered two people in a Unitarian church in Knoxville. Roeder has a lifetime of far-right activism and will be seen more like a militant Islamist acting on behalf of a larger movement than a lone nut.

JBW said...

Rusty, you are a voice of reason amongst a crowd of nattering nabobs. The homophobe comment was indeed beneath me but in my defense I used it in a more mocking than serious tone.

I don't think that Don is a homophobe, I just think he has some unaddressed issues when dealing with or discussing homosexuals, as evidenced by the fact that he considers it an insult to try to associate me with some random gay atheist he found online or that he compulsively talks of "Milkyloads" or something like that when he invokes Andrew Sullivan's name.

I don't come here to cast aspersions or call people names, I enjoy honest and spirited debate but when the site's host calls me a "freak" rather than engage in intellectual discussion my penchant for civility wears thin.

Dave C, I don't really know you but it shows character to admit to a mistake. The gods know I should do the same more often.

And for the record, although I'm supposedly a "leftist, godless, marxist, nihilist" or whatever else I've been called on this site in the past I do not think that late-term abortions should be performed except in the most dire of emergencies. I am against many of Tiller's actions but I'm also against gunning a man down in front of his wife and friends. No one should have to experience that in a civilized society.

Anonymous said...

"my penchant for civility wears thin."

why don't you load your gun?

JBW said...

Anonymous (if that is your real name), I'm not quite sure what you're asking. If by "why don't you load your gun?" you're implying that I should call Don and the others who disagree with me here names I'd have to answer that I'm confident enough in my own rhetorical skills that I don't feel the need to use that particular type of ammunition to win arguments.

dave in boca said...

Andrew Sullivan is sick man to use this murder for political purposes. Yes, and he has been gravely ill between the ears for a long time now.

Added to that, AS is a moral leper.

Anonymous said...

This isn't just domestic terrorism-this is assassination politics-what couldn't be achieved by the ballot is being done (one at a time) by the bullet.

And interesting thing-no abortion doctors were murdered during Bush's term; yet during Clinton's (and now Obama) we're seeing murders.

Coincidence?

Dave said...

Tom Blumer at NewsBusters has uncovered some interesting information about the killer that seems to suggest he was not actually a member of a pro-life group:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2009/05/31/how-long-will-it-take-media-tag-tiller-murderer-not-part-prolife-movemen#comment-943938

Even if it is proven Roeder was not connected to a pro-life group, it won't matter one wit to the corrupt MSM.

The truth is not in them.

-Dave

Dave said...

The Right wants not only to destroy America and our freedom, but kill our people.


Look at the Right make excuses.
.

Anon, based on the robotic mindless drivel you have posted here, you are seriously mentally ill. If anyone is trying to destroy this nation and our freedoms, it is your precious comrade Obama and mindless lefties like you who support him.

Modern liberalism and freedom are wholly incompatible.

And don't pretend that you care about our people, as you clearly support black genocide:

http://www.blackgenocide.org/planned.html

Hypocrite.

-Dave

JBW said...

"Anon, based on the robotic mindless drivel you have posted here, you are seriously mentally ill. If anyone is trying to destroy this nation and our freedoms, it is your precious comrade Obama and mindless lefties like you who support him."

I'd point out the irony of someone spouting the standard and overblown "Comrade Obama is trying to destroy America" boilerplate just after admonishing someone else for spouting "robotic mindless drivel" but I'm afraid it would just ruin the moment, not to mention the comedic effect. Go Dave!

Anonymous said...

"And interesting thing-no abortion doctors were murdered during Bush's term; yet during Clinton's (and now Obama) we're seeing murders"

bush term - murder of non-us ppl. so many of them :)

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Deuce Geary said...

The killer himself could quickly get Andrew Sullivan on his side. All he'd have to do is say he supports gay marriage.

Dennis said...

No matter what this person's reasons for killing this doctor, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. When we start down this road we are well on the road to tyranny.
I may think that many on the Left are seriously wrong, but I have no desire to see them killed for their beliefs. Maybe hoisted on their on petard and I do enjoy using their own actions and definitions against them. Why would anyone want to make a martyr out of someone you disagree?
Actually the reaction from the left is what one would expect. No one knows what the facts are and this is one deranged individual who is responsible for his own actions and should pay accordingly. To try and use it to tar those you disagree is the height of intellectual dishonesty. NOTE: I make a clear distinction between liberal and Leftist. They are not the same no more than a Rightist is a Conservative.

Anonymous said...

On a day when Americans should be pulling together, we instead have leftists driving the wedge in deeper. Contemptible.How dare the left drag politics into the killing of an abortion provider by a pro-life activist! What are leftists supposed to do exactly, agree with Randall Terry that Tiller was a mass murderer who's probably going to hell? Only in a utopia or a police state could something so incredibly divisive be a moment for national unity. There's nothing weird or outrageous about leftists blaming the right in general for an act of right-wing violence, it's not necessarily fair but it's to be expected when something like this happens. If a similar act of left-wing terrorism had just been committed someone on the right would be saying the same thing. I'd give you an example but I can't remember the last time a leftist actually killed someone.

PRH....... said...

Bottom Line: The Murder of Tiller the Killer is not/cannot justified.

Bottom Line2: I will not shed a tear for the murdering bastard.

Bottom Line3: Politics trumps all for the loser left...any and every advantage has to be taken.

Anonymous said...

Some have said that the "murder cannot be justified."

But what does "justify" mean in this situation?

In any legal setting, the guy who would be facing the full power of the law would have been the guy making a killing, while performing kilings after killings after killings.

But in a situation where law is lawlessness, where law no longer exists to protect the life, liberty and property interests of the community, then law becomes "law," and is nothing more than a codification of the prevailing prejudices of whatever faction has gained enough political power to impose their will on the rest.

Where law is now WILL, and the will of a melieu that is determined to stamp down traditional notions of right, wrong, normal and abnormal, where law is now used as a weapon against traditional understandings of marriage, where law is now the power of aggressive secularists imposing their views on society, --------------------- then law no longer exists.

Which means we're entering the world of self-help.

Murder means malice aforethought, a killing where no legal authority exists to kill. But where does the law gather its moral power in such situations? By resort to the Natural Law. It is everywhere wrong to kill a neighbor because you envy his wealth. That's something that the Natural Law speaks to. Society is something of a compact, a private citizen won't seek a justice outside of the mechanisms of the state. BUT WHAT IF THE STATE fails to pursue justice?

In that situation can the citizen be faulted when the entire compact between citizen and state breaks down, irretrievably breaks down?

40 years of unnending effort to get society to wake up about abortion has gained what? Now the problem isn't just abortion, it's federal funding thereof, it's the ability of a minor to get an abortion, and you, the parent, don't know squat about it, because abortion "providers," {what a fricken' euphemism!} can now perform an abortion without lawful permission of a parent.

Abortion rights now war against the right of a PARENT!

And yet some here say we should all go off because some pathological type like a Sullivan seizes these opportunities to come after Christians.

Newsflash!

They're coming after us anyway, anyhow, over anything they can, and they always until they are wholly defeated, discredited, destroyed.

There's no compromising with these people, because for them politics is a world where all things are allowed. Truth is not objective to them, but subjective, and always subordinate to the desire to establish dominant narrative.

There's no good faith in them.

NONE.

So cut the crap.

cracker said...

There must be a special place in hell for violent extremists to burn.....a small place, where they have to get along.

Dennis said...

Gee you think I can blame the Left for the killing of a military recruiter in Arkansas? Fair is Fair.

Anonymous said...

Believe it or not jihadism isn't exactly the same thing as leftism, though I'm sure you'd argue otherwise.

dave in boca said...

Sanctimonius gasbag plus lying demonizer and all-round woman-hating Andrew Sullivan is the moral leper goyische kopf leading the JournoList Cabal.

Judas Goat or Coal-Mine Canary?