Friday, January 23, 2009

Closing Gitmo: "There's Something Not Right With That"

Here's an i Report, "Closing Gitmo," from CNN:

Predictable video comment-thread is here.

7 comments:

Tim said...

A typical comment is here, for those who don't check...

"...It does seem sucky to give legal protections to people who (if they are indeed terrorists) have no respect for the rule of law, I hear you. But the true measure of the evolution of morality in a great society is how it handles doing the hard thing, not the easy thing. It'd be easy to lock these scum up in a far corner of the earth and throw away the key, but we need to do the hard thing and set an example to the world about following the rule of law ALL the time. Plus, don't think it's "giving our rights away." 1, we're not losing them ourselves by giving them to others, and 2, the rights our troops fight and die for are supposed to human rights, no? The kind of rights we supposedly overthrew Saddam Hussein to give to the Iraqi people; hell we even let them give Saddam a trial, so why not the Gitmo detainees? It isn't pleasant, but it's the right thing to do...."

Sorry Donald, but this commenter makes some good points. But by all means, keep playing that fear card. It's worked so well for the right for so long.

Donald Douglas said...

Tim: You're wrong on the law, wrong on common sense, and dumb to quote someone from a ill-informed comment thread, with all due respect.

Legender said...

As ever Donald, you are eloquent and intelligent in your put downs. And articulate in your rebuttals. But I digress. Here are some more comments that YOU linked to...

"I'm an Iraq War Veteran and I swore an oath to defend the constitution. That same constitution applies to everyone no matter where a person is. There are also international treat[ies] that protect the people in Gitmo."

Note to Iraq war veteran quoted above: Donald hates you and your attitude. Because you are dumb!

One for Donald:
"Nothing like an ignorant, un-informed, opinion on CNN.

Newsflash: The Constitution of the United States of America protects ONLY CITEZENS. The Gitmo detainees are not citizens.

No, don't argue. End of story. Period. I mean it. Over and out."

There is a good lively debate going on here Donald. I know you abhor debate because that means there might be a contrary opinion to your own, but it's fun nonetheless. They get into things like the Geneva Convention, who it covers, what it means, etc.

You should try this debate thing more. Instead of your nihilists putdowns. (Which I'm ok with now. It's more of a joke than an actual putdown, so go with it. I give you license.)

repsac3 said...

The first thing I noticed was the terrorist scarf she was wearing. Malkin et al ought to be boycotting this video anytime now.


"...and that means they will get American rights in court. These are the men who tried to hurt Americans..."

Every violent crime that takes place in America is perpetrated by someone trying to hurt an American.

"And you know, they are going to come intro the United States and get the rights that our American soldiers fought for, and I'm sure we can all agree that there's something not right with that."

No, as I said below, I think there's something not right in withholding American justice to from anyone in American custody. Either our legal system is based on universal principles of fundamental and inalienable rights, or it isn't.

But I'm willing to meet halfway, and try them as "enemy combatants" or whatever. Try them under special rules written only for them... ...but try them.

I give the video girl credit though... Even she realizes that those involved are trying to do what's best for our country, and that's better than some...

Stogie said...

Tim,

Fear is a GOOD thing if it keeps you alive. You do look both ways before crossing the street don't you?

Fear as a political ploy to motivate voters can be cynical, but that's not what's happening here. There are real dangers in the world and it pays to be cognizant of them.

Tim said...

Stogie: I agree with you. But I object when it is used to coerce the masses to discard what we as a nation have stood for.

Fear is also what keeps the mafia in business.

JBW said...

"if they are indeed terrorists". That's the most important line from that quote. Many of these guys are terrorist scum no doubt, but there are many others who were delivered into the arms of the American military by countries and regimes whose word we wouldn't trust if our way of life depended on it. Oh wait...

The Gitmo detainees are, everyone say it with me now: suspected terrorists. Pretending that we've subjected them to a battery of tests that prove unequivocally that they are guilty of the crimes we haven't charged them with is disingenuous and frankly, unAmerican.

Think of them as slightly less hairy Rod Blagojavichs: yeah, we're pretty sure he did a lot of that shit but we won't know for sure until we have an investigation and perhaps a trial, and that's why he's still governor and that's why these detainees are still alive.

Don, Tim is right and you're wrong and I'm going to back that opinion up with as much logic and proof as you did. Oh, and you can be kind of an asshole sometimes, with all due respect.

Stogie, fear is not what makes us look both ways before we cross a street, it's what makes a deer dart into traffic and die. Fear is it's primary motivator in that situation and when fear is your primary motivator you usually end up doing something dangerous and stupid.

Intellect, rationality and experience are what make us look both ways, not because we're afraid but because we understand and appreciate the consequences to our well being if we do not. Fear distracts us and clouds our judgement. Yes, it can keep you safe in some situations but would you argue that it keeps us safer than rationality and good judgement?