Wednesday, January 14, 2009

Roger Gardner: America Besieged

Roger Gardner is the publisher of Radarsite and an occasional commenter at this blog. He's been battling cancer and was originally told by doctors that he had little time left. It turns out his course of medical treatment has been successful beyond hope - with God's blessing no doubt - and Roger's been back to blogging a bit, about politics and the meaning of life. I wish him well in health and life, and he'll be in my prayers tonight.

Roger's got a post up today that's a lazer beam of moral clarity, and I'm pleased to share it with readers in light of the backlash we've seen here in the comments against some of my posts. Tim,
Repsac3, and Truth 101 have formed something of a nihilist trio this past couple of days, and the comment threads have not been without fireworks of vituperation. I have recieved an e-mail from one reader who has observed all of this and has decided to stay on the sidelines. This reader repeatedly thanks me for my essays, and commends me for my patience in fending off the many brutal screeds that sometimes fill (pollute?) these threads.

In any case, Roger's essay today provides a perspective on things that's more powerful than I can offer. So please read and consider this excerpt from his post, "
Chemo Thoughts: The End of My World?":

Earlier today a friend emailed me to ask how I was doing. I assume they were referring to my ongoing battle with leukemia. I answered that I was doing fine. I had determined early on when I got that first lethal prognosis that I was not going to use the pages of Radarsite for a continual updating on the morbid details of my chemotherapy. So I answered that I was doing fine. But, I wonder, how am I really doing? Am I really doing fine?

Nothing concentrates the mind like a death sentence. Especially one that is so close at hand and almost certain. Priorities are immediately questioned and reshuffled. What seemed of great import yesterday may have lost much or all of its weight today. The love and closeness of family and friends becomes paramount; whereas the opinions of strangers become less and less relevant. The often frenetic muddle of everyday life is quickly subsumed into the greater battle for life itself. There's only enough space left in your life for those things of real value, or perhaps for those values which are real. There's just not enough time left for empty rhetoric or endless gentlemanly debate. In whatever time is left you must embrace your family and your values and hold them dear ....

How do I feel? My friend asks. Here's how I really feel. From those very first days I have accepted my personal prognosis completely and without complaint. I am grateful for the endlessly fascinating life I have been allowed to live. But I have not yet accepted the dire fate that awaits my beloved country. I am filled with shame and disbelief at what we have become, what we are becoming, what we are giving up, what we have forgotten. My usually dependable inherent optimism has been all but eroded by the preposterous events of these last few years. That America I have so long loved and respected has been turned upside down. Those values that separated us from the rest of the world have either been ingloriously degraded or completely abandoned. We no longer know who we are or what we stand for. We allow others to define us, we allow our sworn enemies -- both within and without -- to determine our national agendas. We are in the fateful process of completely losing our national identity. And according to our recent elections, this makes half of our population happy. Half of our population considers our formerly-precious American identity to be the problem. America is what's wrong with this world. To fix the world we must therefore change what it means to be an American. Change we can believe in.

We are presently besieged by savage enemies. Islamists, Marxists, Anarchists, cruel dictators and criminal tyrants. We are besieged by alien cults of death who nurse apocalyptic visions of destruction. Everything that we hold dear is under attack and threatened. But the most dangerous and shameless enemy of all lives right here amongst us. Our very own treacherous patriots, who rush to give the keys to the kingdom to the barbarians at our gates. The idiots, the fools, the delusional liberals, and those elitist amoral progressives who honestly believe that by utterly destroying the fabric of this great nation they will somehow save it. They have traded our pride for guilt and our strength for safety. And I despise them for it. I despise them more than I despise our sworn enemies, because our sworn enemies do not disguise their motives under the cloak of patriotism.

And what of our innocent children? Our beloved grandchildren? What godless world have we bequeathed to them? What is our message to these innocents? There is no right or wrong. Everything is relative. All peoples and all belief systems are morally equal. There is no such thing as good or evil, just different points of view. War is morally wrong, no matter what its purpose. To defend yourself with violence is as unjustifiable as to attack one with violence.

How do I feel? I have been told that my life is coming to an end. So be it. I can deal with that. But can I deal with the prospect of my beloved country coming to an end? Is my beloved country eagerly embracing its own demise? Will our new America truly be willing to fight for its survival in this savage world? Or, as it seems to me now, have we chosen the ignoble road of appeasement and dishonor? Is there still hope for us?
Now, I can't add to much to Roger's elegy to traditionalism without dishonoring his words.

I will say that in my writing, when I characterize secular progressives as "nihilist," I think Roger's essay captures my meaning. As Merriam-Webster's dictionary indicates, nihilism is " a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths." Despite the protestations of the aforementioned commenters at this blog, Roger's "elitist amoral progressives" are one and the same with those who would deny "any objective ground of truth and especially moral truths."

Perhaps this will clarify some things, and thanks so much to Roger for offering his fine and meaningful musings on life, family, and the universal good.

29 comments:

TRUTH 101 said...

First of all Don, I sincerely hope Mr. Gardner defeats this disease and lives a long happy life.

And if it makes you feel patriotic by labeling me a nihilist because I don't believe because someone doesn't share my faith that they can't be good Americans then good for you.
If it makes me a nihilist in your eyes because I don't have a problem with two people of any sex marrying is fine with me, or if a gay person wants to serve our Nation in the military makes me a nihilist in your eyes, and the eyes of your disciples, I'm in good company with Tim, Repsac3 and the Swashbuckler crowd. We love America as much as you do Professor. We want our Country to remain the strongest nation on Earth. We want Bin laden and the rest of those that would do our Nation harm brought to justice. If that means having to kill them then we have to kill them. That does not mean we have to lower our moral standards to theirs. We don't need torture. We support freedom. You don't have to be a Christian to love America Professor. You just have to love America. And if you love America, America should not care where or if you go to church.

repsac3 said...

Roger: "There is no right or wrong. Everything is relative. All peoples and all belief systems are morally equal. There is no such thing as good or evil, just different points of view. War is morally wrong, no matter what its purpose. To defend yourself with violence is as unjustifiable as to attack one with violence."

Donald: "...nihilism is " a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths." Despite the protestations of the aforementioned commenters at this blog, Roger's "elitist amoral progressives" are one and the same with those who would deny "any objective ground of truth and especially moral truths."

The problem, Donald, is that you cannot quote any of the three "nihilists" you mention saying any of the things you & RogerRadar allege. You've got it in your head that Truth, Tim &/or I (along with many others) believe these things, but you have never offered a single thing in the way of proof.

So again, I ask... Can you quote anything that I have said on this blog or anywhere else, that shows that I believe there is no right or wrong, or that all peoples & belief systems are morally equal? Where have I ever said that all war is morally wrong, or that there is no moral or other difference between violence used in defense and violence used offensively? Where have I denied any ground of truth, moral or otherwise?

Can you show any of these things, or are you just talking for the sake of hearing yourself speak, hoping no one will notice that you consistently fail to back these charges of nihilism with any concrete evidence?

I understand that you & some of your minions here believe these things of liberals--which is in itself a part of the problem... Liberals are no more monolithic in their thinking than you conservatives are... Some do believe dopey, & perhaps even nihilist things, but that doesn't mean we all do... It'd be like saying all cons are the same as your racist nemesis, txfred... To lump any group of people together & tar all of 'em with the thoughts, opinions, or behaviors of the worst of 'em is just dumb, and pretty obviously intellectually wrong, besides.--but like I was sayin'... some of you believe these things of us, and if you want to just believe it, sans proof, there's nothin' I can do to stop any of you... If you wish to go on faith alone, believe as you will...

But Donald, for those here who put stock in intellectual reason and evidence, you have never made any kinda case that I or any of your other "nihilist-bomb" targets are in fact nihilists...

I invite you (again) to make some small attempt to do so here, or admit you cannot.

Grace Explosion said...

Praise the Lord! Two quick stories. I got a call from a friend to ask me to pray for a friend of a friend. She was in the final stages of terminal rectal cancer. Her weight was down very low - perhaps 85, 80 or 90 lbs. Something you hear - and it's incredible the low weight. The doctors sent her home. Nothing they could do for her. They'd done all. I prayed, and really felt that God had healed her. I called my friend back and told her to tell her she was healed. My friend wasn't comfortable. So I said to just call me back when the doctors gave the report. My friend called me a few days later. She'd been to the doctor - total spontaneous remission. No cancer in her body.

Another story. We'd prayed for a woman with lymphoma. God had healed her (through doctors in chemo treatment and by God's grace). The cancer returned really bad. They said her only hope was the most lethal form of chemo then a bone marrow transplant. If that didn't work, nothing could be done for her. Bone marrow match was found. They did pre-chemo tests again then. Over a dozen doctors reviewed the results - it was so remarkable. Again, another story of total remission with no medical treatment that could explain that remission.

I believe God uses doctors - and God can do miracles too. Wonderful to hear that the author is doing better. I think it's good to focus on life and other things... and just do what one needs to do to treat the matter by physicians... and not allow it at the forefront of the mind... and just do what's in front of a person. I think that's very healthy, myself.

Again, congratulations on doing well and God's blessing to you. God is our Healer - the Great Physician - and uses doctors and treatment to heal, imo... and can do miracles.

Donald Douglas said...

"We love America as much as you do Professor. We want our Country to remain the strongest nation on Earth."

I have my doubts, Truth101. I sometimes think you don't really understand questions of good and evil, and you're just joining in on the chorus. You see, I don't think we have lowered our moral standards, and you do. Also, I say this from a sense of Platonic eternal right and good, not that of Jesus or Christianity. There is a force of moral power external to us all, and I believe the left-nihilists reject that good and enable our enemies.

If you are not one of these, you need to make the case as to why. Perhaps in a post at your blog...

Grace Explosion said...

Shees! I saw a comment from an earlier thread, JBW. Depends on "which neighbors" as far as their view of me. People that get in a prayer meeting with me get their hair blown back with such force, they kinda "freeze". Then tell me when they shake themselves "free" a bit - they've never heard anyone pray with such power. Yeah, I'm a tad "over the top". People hear me speak about grace... and, well, say they've never heard anyone speak with such power. I don't know what to tell ya... cuz it was never my goal to be thought "normal" by atheists... in good humor... when I speak what I believe. My goal, basically, has been to gain power by which to step straight into Heaven's glory and manifest the glory on earth as I see Jesus clearly with my heart by grace through faith... and just "press in". See, I'm all into manifesting the miraculous.

If you thought I was sane, being an atheist who doesn't believe anything about God, well, I wouldn't be even close to "successful" as far as the achieving of my goals. I walk into a place of business, and people typically get "blown away". I've been offered ungodly sums of money... and opportunities... I've turned down. So, I mean, that's not speaking about my calling though. That's just "walking in the faith upon me". People tend to congregate around me drawn to me believing I am the most powerful (these terms are used quite a bit... "most powerful"... in relation to my "presence") motivational speaker they've ever heard. I do speak with a great deal of passion and see things at a spiritual level. So, anyway, well... if an atheist thought I was "normal"... I wouldn't even be close to achieving my mega-miraculous goals which are achieved by "practising the Presence of God" by grace through faith.

Nah... we won't see eye to eye.

But, it's my hope, and we'll see bout that - to rock this world for Jesus one last time... and fracture this nation in two. ;)

Well, we'll see. I'm busy focused on work right now. Sorry I make your head spin. Try not to read my stuff on martini nite... we wouldn't want you to hurl anything as your head spins. ;)

Donald Douglas said...

Repsac3: If you're so adamant that you don't fit the criteria of a "liberal" or "elite progressive," you show me.

Roger has you down when he says this:

"The idiots, the fools, the delusional liberals, and those elitist amoral progressives who honestly believe that by utterly destroying the fabric of this great nation they will somehow save it."

Take it up with Roger if you disagree, but you're right in there, and the fact that you protest so much just makes your disclaimers look all that much more silly. Can't you defend your ideas rather than rejecting them once they're pinned on you like a lump of radioactive matter?

Donald Douglas said...

Thanks for visiting, Grace!

TRUTH 101 said...

It's sad that the closed minded right wingers and his friend Roger still try to frame everything as a good vs. evil thing. We are all capable of both. Because a few of us that come here differ on whether gays deserve the same rights as straights, or the Iraq War was a mistake, the right wingers brand us as evil. I don't think the Professor and his disciples are evil. Deluded, yes. Evil, no. And unlike the pious and long suffering Ms. Grace, I would not demand God deny any of my right wing fellow Americans their place in Heaven.

Donald Douglas said...

Truth101: Again, I ask you to lay out your ideas at length, perhaps in a post. I don't know if YOU are evil, but I think secular progressives embolden evil, and I'm willing to call folks out. I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking the ideas you represent. With some folks, it does get personal, so we'll see.

Greywolfe said...

Amen to this post and my prayers are for Mr. Gardner's fast recovery. All things are possible in Christ Jesus.

His last remarks echo my feelings and oh so many of my posts. So much so that I will be following his blog closely now. As iron sharpens iron, so does man sharpen man.

As for the self-deluded commentors like Truth and his ilk, I really do wish that they would come up with a rational set of beliefs that they do champion and give a reasoned, well thought out reason to back them up. Honest debate rather than just attacking our beliefs that we do post here and on other sites.

But to do that would open them up for argument and I've never met a liberal that could argue facts and keep emotional responses out.

I will give truth this. I believe that Gays should be let into the military. We need someone to clean up afterwards and put back up the drapes.

repsac3 said...

Repsac3: If you're so adamant that you don't fit the criteria of a "liberal" or "elite progressive," you show me.

Which one of us is making the accusations, here...?

When I make an accusation about you, I'll either back it up, or admit I cannot do so. When you're making the accusation, the burden is on you to back up your words.

You say I am a nihilist. So far, it's just words, and holds no more water than if you were to claim the moon is made of cheese, or that you are the smartest professor teaching at your college. Anyone can claim to know or be anything, but proving what one claims takes a bit more effort. Effort that you seem unwilling or unable to put forth.

That you fail to do so, and instead try to shift your burden of proof to me, says alot about the quality of your claims.

Burden of proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Under the Latin maxim necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the general rule is that 'the necessity of proof lies with he who complains.' The burden of proof, therefore, usually lies with the party making the new claim."

The claim you are making is that I am a nihilist. Therefore the burden of proving I am that which you claim I am, rests with you.

He who does not carry the burden of proof carries the benefit of assumption, meaning he needs no evidence to support his claim.

That'd be me. I am making no claim, other than to deny that your claim has any merit.

Perhaps you'd prefer a less legalistic, & more logical page:

Atheism: Logic & Fallacies:

Shifting the burden of proof

The burden of proof is always on the person asserting something. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of Argumentum ad Ignorantiam, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

Or, as one of my high school teachers used to say, "quod gratis affirmatur, gratis negatur" (What is freely affirmed [that is, offered without evidence] may be freely denied.)

You claim I am a nihilist.
The burden is on you to prove it, or admit (either in words, or by your silence) that you cannot.

Tim said...

OK, this is Donald's blog, and if he wants to define ketchup as mustard, that is his prerogative. Of course that doesn't make him right, except to those in his choir that he preaches to daily. Some of us believe differently, some on finer points some on major points. Either way, it clearly does NOT make us nihilistic in any sense as we are all law-abiding and moral people. And I'm taking on faith that fellow posters Truth 101 and repsac3 are. I've seen absolutely nothing that suggests otherwise from them. Or any other of my compatriots on the left. It's getting almost funny though, and I do enjoy some of the put downs. Not because they make me feel bad, but because they show the talibangelicals in their own dim light. It is not a light of reason, intelligence or rectitude. And no amount of outrage on their side reveals anything more than what it is--a sense of immaturity.

What I do know is this: the so-called Christians and moralists here show their true colors almost every day by their shrill bleatings that suggest they are out of intellectual steam and rely on playground-mentality put downs in an attempt to make a point. It really is simple to call someone a nihilist rather than objectively address the issues. I only abhor the laziness of the argument, that is all. Nihilist, in truth, suggests a wholly disproportionate viewpoint than the ones on offer Donald. You, of all people, should know this. If your blog/comments were shown to other professors in your field, I'm afraid they would show no small amount of disapproval for its LCD spin.

Also, all this talk about doom and gloom and 666 is really entertaining as well. I'm sure your peeps said this in 1809 and 1909. You are nothing if not consistent. What I hate about it, what I despise about it, is that it seeks a sense of role-fulfillment form the parties involved, rather than working to make America a better place.

If anyone is a nihilist, if any group fits the standard definition of nihilist, it is the doom and gloom, end of the world, rapture-waiting right wing fringe.

Judging by the last two elections, though, it seems your numbers are dwindling. One can only hope!

Roger: You are a brave person and I will send you my thoughts. I'm not really the praying type, but that doesn't mean I think any less about people or try to help others. I wish you a speedy recovery.

I do hope and pray, in my own way, that things turn out differently from what you describe. I believe in the power of humanity, and that all things are possible if only we think positively and act rationally and morally.

Philippe Ohlund said...

Well, at least Amy Winehouse is doing great.

Van Zan said...

Tim,

That is one of the best summations I've ever read on this blog. My hat is off to you. I wish I could be so eloquent.

Philippe Ohlund said...

Tim, you say:
"If anyone is a nihilist, if any group fits the standard definition of nihilist, it is the doom and gloom, end of the world, rapture-waiting right wing fringe".

I think we should be very grateful that Donald warns us about the consequences of making wrong choices.

We can continue to live in a great world, or we can trash our world.

If we want better lives for us and for coming generations, we will have to fight.

Ultimately it is our choice what we want to do with our countries and our lives.

But I agree with Donald.

We should always make the right decisions.

repsac3 said...

If anyone is a nihilist, if any group fits the standard definition of nihilist, it is the doom and gloom, end of the world, rapture-waiting right wing fringe.

Exactly, Tim. That was another point I wanted to make. I put it to you folks... Where has Tim, or Truth or I ever said anything as downright negative and yes, a bit nihilistic, about this country and our fellow citizens as this? :

But I have not yet accepted the dire fate that awaits my beloved country. I am filled with shame and disbelief at what we have become, what we are becoming, what we are giving up, what we have forgotten. My usually dependable inherent optimism has been all but eroded by the preposterous events of these last few years. That America I have so long loved and respected has been turned upside down. Those values that separated us from the rest of the world have either been ingloriously degraded or completely abandoned. We no longer know who we are or what we stand for. We allow others to define us, we allow our sworn enemies -- both within and without -- to determine our national agendas. We are in the fateful process of completely losing our national identity. And according to our recent elections, this makes half of our population happy. Half of our population considers our formerly-precious American identity to be the problem. America is what's wrong with this world. To fix the world we must therefore change what it means to be an American. Change we can believe in.

This is a guy who loves his country as it is, and isn't seeking radical changes to make it conform to his sense of what should & should not be?

Grace has the US splitting in two, with her & her virtuous holier-than-thou buddies seceding from the union & forming their own Christofascist country, at least until the rapture rolls 'round. If that ain't a pretty radical bit of "I hate America & all it stands for," I don't know what is. I defy you to find anything that we've said that even comes close to that kind of "change."

But we're the ones you charge with talking trash about the ideas & ideals, the people & the promise, that makes this country the most free & fair place on earth...

Give me a break...

Unlike Roger & Grace, I am in no way ashamed of this country as it is. I believe our best days are still before us, not behind us, in spite of you whiners. Everything I say & do is in support of the American values that['ve made this country great since day one, & I reject the notion that those values are not still strong. Perhaps Roger has forgotten who we are & what we stand for, but I certainly haven't, & where I have criticized our outgoing government, it has been because I believed they were not living up to those ideals for which we have always stood.

I'm damned sorry you folks are so unhappy with our country these days, but if that is how you feel, I wish you well in finding those new lands where Grace (with God's help, of course) will set up her Christopia... God speed, and don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Donald Douglas said...

Repsas3: I'm not making accusations, only observations and descripstions. If you don't like them, you don't have to read them.

This is not a debate, in any case, so save all your logic links. You haven't prevailed in a so-called debate with me yet, so you're trying to instigate something here.

Donald Douglas said...

"It really is simple to call someone a nihilist rather than objectively address the issues."

Tim: We debated your hardline radical position on gay marriage for weeks and you were reduced to mumbling coherence in the face of my concise essays and argumentation. You're not only nihilist, but dishonest as well.

As I've said all along, you are an athiestic socialist who espouses a radical moral relativism that I reject, and Roger Gardner has identified you precisely.

The bleating is all yours, and the fact that you erupt in vehemence and horror to being identified for what you are illustrates Roger's points exquisitely: At least terrorists will admit they want to destroy this country and our traditionalism. You're too cowardly to do so, obviously.

Why do you even stay here when you hate this country so much? Maybe Britain's more welcoming...

Donald Douglas said...

Van Zan: Your comments prompted my earlier post on radical feminism, to which you freaked out in mindless incoherence.

Praising Tim here is one more indication that you don't know WTF is going on, with all due respect.

Donald Douglas said...

"Perhaps Roger has forgotten who we are & what we stand for, but I certainly haven't, & where I have criticized our outgoing government, it has been because I believed they were not living up to those ideals for which we have always stood."

Repsac3: This is clear evidence that you in fact don't love America. You love what she promises, not what she is. And better times are ahead upon the completion of the proletarian revolution. You couldn't have put Marxist dialecticism in more understandable layman's terms. That was very useful in indicating in fact that you are no American partriot. America-bashers always looking ahead to the utopia ... imagine, there's no religion ...

Donald Douglas said...

Thanks for joining the discussion, Philippe!

Norm said...

Philippe makes the best point today with his post linking to Amy Winehouse. Get picture of her drunk or stoned crawling on the floor trying to steal drinks. She must be the result of what Tim says about "conservative values": they have "run the world into the ground". This picture is a symbol of the free world ready to get kicked in the ass by our enemies.
Thanks again Philippe...perfect.
Here you go, Respac3, Tim and Truth101...if it feels good, do it.

Philippe Ohlund said...

You are welcome, Donald! :-)

Thanks, Norm!
I'm glad you liked my link! :-)

repsac3 said...

Just trying to get you to stand behind the words you use, Donald...

I'm not at all surprised that you cannot, however...

You might just as well call me a cow, a cowboy, or the reincarnation of lord Ronald Reagan, because as long as you're so unwilling or unable to back what you say with fact, your ever-present & never-ending cries of "nihilist" mean just as little to any thinking person who reads them.

The burden of proof is on you. That it is too heavy a load for you to handle tells me all I need to know...

Van Zan said...

Donald,

A bit shrill today?

I did not freak out. I said it was bizarre. It is bizarre. You think it is bizarre, but you prefer to put it in ideological claptrap so you can paste everyone who disagrees with you as belonging to the same camp.

Tim got your number, professor. It was a good comment, and you've just proven him right again. But thanks for the "WTF" put down anyway... amusing.

repsac3 said...

You love what she promises, not what she is.

I'm sorry, but is that not the very same argument I offered in my comment about Roger? Were the very first words in that paragraph not in direct opposition to this specious charge? Unlike Roger & Grace, I am in no way ashamed of this country as it is.

And better times are ahead upon the completion of the proletarian revolution.

Those are your words, not mine. The better times to which I refer are right in line with the values of America, as is, and not your imagined Marxist takeover. (But I understand where you'[re coming from... It's always easier to argue against a straw man of your own making, rather than the words I actually spoke.)

America-bashers always looking ahead to the utopia ...

Or in Grace's case, a Christopia...

(Funny, how you always fail to address her secessionist designs for the US... Does your silence imply agreement, or an unwillingness to take on one who sleeps on the same side of the bed?)

Donald Douglas said...

Repsac3 on the Bush administration:

"I believed they were not living up to those ideals for which we have always stood."

Perfectly said, just like your progressive allies on the netroots left who have gone wild in orgiastic outrage at "BushHitler." All of you hate what the U.S. is right now. You look forward to a future utopia of "peace" and bareback homosexual love-train licentiousness. Roger's right: You are out to destroy this country, and you will demonize those with whom you disagree until the cows come home. The fact that you have no courage to actually defend your nihilism revolutionism speaks directly to your abject immoralism and cowardice.

This thread is done.

I'm having the last word so folks may start a new thread above if they desire ...

Tim said...

Donald: That was tired.

Let's just review for people who may not know. According to you, based on what I have said on these comment threads, I am a "nihilist" because of the following:

a) I don't believe in reckless, wars. The military equivalent of the NFL's "hurry-up" offense. I believe in strategic planning, a clear objective and a great moral purpose that cannot be inferred to be conducted for any other than altruistic and/or defensive reasons.

b) I believe, like most countries on earth, that every man, woman and child should have healthcare affordable and available to them. I don't believe that healthcare is a privilege. I dare say that Jesus would either.

b) I believe in the inclusiveness of marriage and committed relationships and that regardless of sexual orientation you should not be denied the right to marry or raise children. (On the other hand, your logic means you support the right of serial murderers and rapists to marry and have children. Anyone, in fact, as long as they are heterosexual.) I know that people in these relationships are committed to each other and deserve the same rights you and I enjoy . They don't contribute to the decline of morality or the destruction of society by any measure. And I have yet to see someone produce factual evidence that gays and lesbians somehow do. The only thing gays and lesbians have done is piss you off because they have campaigned, sometimes too vociferously, for their voices to be heard.

Now, based on the above, if I fit the definition of "nihilist" then I am a nihilist. Gladly.

repsac3 said...

This thread is done.

I'm having the last word so folks may start a new thread above if they desire ...


Apparently, it's the only way you can win the argument, so you go right ahead and delete this comment, which will only further show your hand...


I have never used the term "BusHitler" or anything like it (as you well know, from searching my blog posts earlier today.) Like your endless birdcall of "nihilist," you can claim I hate this country as it is until your blue in the face... Repeating it will never make it so. Where I have used Roger's own words to show that he feels that way, you have failed to do the same. Your suggestions that I support peace at any price & bareback gay licentiousness are similarly creations of your own imagination, and cannot be backed with any hard proof. As you appear to disagree, I once again call on you to prove me wrong by showing where I have supported such things...

I have no need of defending myself against these specious charges of nihilism revolutionism, or abject immoralism and cowardice--which I contend you've invented as a result of pure political bias & hatred of anyone unlike yourself--as you have consistently failed to ground them with anything -- ANYTHING -- in the way of fact based evidence. You might as well claim I'm an astronaut, the Pope, or the devil as to continue to repeat these silly accusations, ad nauseum, & devoid of backing facts.

Statements offered without proof may be denied without proof. It isn't that your suit is made of invisible cloth, Donald... The fact is, you're naked...